End turn when time limit is exceeded

[matthias7]

When a player exceeds their time limit, their turn should automatically end. It's annoying and unfair when you're about to win and a player in last place expels a person in second place for exceeding the time limit, causing you to get a tie with the last place player. This happens often in Catan. Someone get a large number of resources near the end of the game and chooses to keep playing, hoping they won't get booted despite the warning (as many people don't follow through), only to have the loser expel them, giving the winning player a tie. I also don't like being forced to decide whether I should boot a slower player especially since others will red thumb me if I do. Additionally, if someone's Internet goes down for a minute, it's better to just end their turn than end the game for everyone because one person refuses to wait.

[Kayvon]

When a player exceeds their time limit, their turn should automatically end.

This sounds like a great suggestion when you're thinking only about Catan. Once you start considering other games, you quickly see that it's a terrible idea.

In many games, performing actions is mandatory. This creates an exploit where you can avoid mandatory actions and immediately end your turn. Imagine games with payment, pentalties, etc. at the end of your turn. Even a simple game of Chess could be exploited to avoid making a move.

Sounds great on Catan. Horrible on many, many other games.

[jakeqz007]

In many games, performing actions is mandatory. This creates an exploit where you can avoid mandatory actions and immediately end your turn.

In such games, the server could randomly select required actions. It knows which actions are possible, though might not have them in a list to conveniently choose from, in which case some additional programming on a game-by-game basis may be needed.

Even a simple game of Chess could be exploited to avoid making a move.

Normally in Chess, when a player runs out of time, they immediately lose. The suggestion (which I like, though more because I want to complete the game properly) would only apply to 3+ player games.

[cigma]

In such games, the server could randomly select required actions.

That's exactly what BGA does if you kick a player who doesn't play, and you decide to continue. But don't be surprised if the game experience suffers as a result.

I want to complete the game properly

I personally wouldn't consider it as completing a game properly, if one player's actions were chosen randomly.

[matthias7]

When a player exceeds their time limit, their turn should automatically end.

This sounds like a great suggestion when you're thinking only about Catan. Once you start considering other games, you quickly see that it's a terrible idea.

In many games, performing actions is mandatory. This creates an exploit where you can avoid mandatory actions and immediately end your turn. Imagine games with payment, pentalties, etc. at the end of your turn. Even a simple game of Chess could be exploited to avoid making a move.

Sounds great on Catan. Horrible on many, many other games.

I see how it would be bad in games with required moves (I certainly wouldn't want it in Chess) or even in Catan when someone needs to select resources to discard after getting robbed. However, I think it would work great in any game where the player doesn't currently have any required moves to make. Expelling players in Catan and Terraforming Mars when they aren't required to do anything doesn't make sense to me when auto pass would work better.

[Kayvon]

I think it would work great in any game where the player doesn't currently have any required moves to make

Sure, I agree. That's a vastly different suggestion than trying to universally apply this to every game. It would need to be implemented on a game-by-game basis, too, so it'll be quite a bit of work to implement. But I agree it would be nice to have.

[jakeqz007]

I think it would work great in any game where the player doesn't currently have any required moves to make

Sure, I agree. That's a vastly different suggestion than trying to universally apply this to every game. It would need to be implemented on a game-by-game basis, too, so it'll be quite a bit of work to implement.

If the following is true, then a per-game (and per-setup) flag would be all that's needed.

In such games, the server could randomly select required actions.

That's exactly what BGA does if you kick a player who doesn't play, and you decide to continue. But don't be surprised if the game experience suffers as a result.

But it's not. When a player is expelled, their pieces just remain: there are no automated required turns taken on their behalf (e.g. Catan: roll dice; Ticket to Ride: pick up cards).

It's annoying and unfair when you're about to win and a player in last place expels a person in second place for exceeding the time limit, causing you to get a tie with the last place player.

This specific problem could be solved differently for many games. BGA already has a %-complete for each game. So if that has passed a threshold (e.g. 90%), then the final result (if players carry on) or score as it is (plus final totting-up, otherwise) stands (with the expelled/quitted player last). Would probably need to be an agreed option at game start (along with options like no <50% karma)

[Kayvon]

In such games, the server could randomly select required actions.

That's exactly what BGA does if you kick a player who doesn't play, and you decide to continue. But don't be surprised if the game experience suffers as a result.

But it's not. When a player is expelled, their pieces just remain: there are no automated required turns taken on their behalf (e.g. Catan: roll dice; Ticket to Ride: pick up cards).

It is, actually. You're citing some games that haven't implemented it correctly, but it's part of the developer standard in studio.boardgamearena.com. BGA's framework automatically calls a game routine to execute the automatic action when someone is expelled.

This is probably a good example of how difficult it will be to get each game to included an extra feature if it's so hard to get them to implement even the baseline.

[thoun]

As the dev of Ticket to Ride, I confirm the game continues to play (randomly) for the leaver.