Abandoning Game

[zeugaaw]

Hi, I just had something happen that I never experienced before and did not know about. Near the end of the game, I went down to negative 7 on my clock. My opponent was about to lose, but on their turn, instead of conceding, it looks like they abandoned the game. I got no credit for the win and they got no credit for the loss, and it looks like this happened because my clock was in the negative. Is this correct?

[charliec247]

Correct. You are forced to accept any abandon game proposals if your clock is in negative time.

[Ceaseless]

Hi, I just had something happen that I never experienced before and did not know about. Near the end of the game, I went down to negative 7 on my clock. My opponent was about to lose, but on their turn, instead of conceding, it looks like they abandoned the game. I got no credit for the win and they got no credit for the loss, and it looks like this happened because my clock was in the negative. Is this correct?

Correct. A player can request to abandon the game, and as long as all players with a positive clock agree to it, the game is abandoned by mutual consent. If you had time on your clock, you would be able to decline and the game would continue.

[Jellby]

Note that since your time was negative, your opponent could have chosen to expel you instead. Then they would have been credited with a win, and you with a loss, in addition to a karma penalty. So be thankful that they abandoned.

[RandomUN]

Note that since your time was negative, your opponent could have chosen to expel you instead. Then they would have been credited with a win, and you with a loss, in addition to a karma penalty. So be thankful that they abandoned.

I believe what OP is saying here is that their opponent could not have expelled them because they were actively playing. If they attempted to expel, they would have to wait 20 seconds. Instead, the opponent took advantage of the fact abandon would be automatically accepted due to the negative clock to avoid a loss.

Obviously, had OP not been in the negative, this would not have been possible, though a single move likely would have made the clock positive. It is a consequence of going negative that OP has to accept, but I would also say their opponent has taken advantage of the option in a way they probably wouldn't have if they were winning.

[tbhp]

This is a bit of a weird situation because if the player refrained from kicking out when it was the other player's turn, why should they be able to go back on their decision and avoid the loss at the end of the game?

What would be the disadvantages of abandon including the votes of the players out of time?

[tbhp]

Note that since your time was negative, your opponent could have chosen to expel you instead. Then they would have been credited with a win, and you with a loss, in addition to a karma penalty. So be thankful that they abandoned.

I believe what OP is saying here is that their opponent could not have expelled them because they were actively playing. If they attempted to expel, they would have to wait 20 seconds. Instead, the opponent took advantage of the fact abandon would be automatically accepted due to the negative clock to avoid a loss.

Obviously, had OP not been in the negative, this would not have been possible, though a single move likely would have made the clock positive. It is a consequence of going negative that OP has to accept, but I would also say their opponent has taken advantage of the option in a way they probably wouldn't have if they were winning.

Yeah, in my opinion it's a useless feature because while OP went out of time, they never went out of time for long enough that they could actually be expelled. So the game was able to proceed to its conclusion, at which point it becomes the other player's fault if they choose to neuter the game's result. They shouldn't be able to do that.

[Jellby]

Just don't take those 20 seconds for granted. Negative time is negative time, period.

Any "vote" that required an answer from out-of-time players would be ineffective.

[tbhp]

Just don't take those 20 seconds for granted. Negative time is negative time, period.

But that's not a justification. The whole point of being able to kick out a player who is out of time is that it can give people a way out when the other player is taking forever to play. If they do play and the game manages to reach its conclusion, then the kick out feature has no more reason to exist, the other player is in capacity to end the game normally and they would be acting in bad faith if they decided to use their opponent's negative clock to their advantage.

Any "vote" that required an answer from out-of-time players would be ineffective.

Maybe it would be, that's why I asked what may be the disadvantages of including those players in the vote. What do you think are harmful ways it could be exploited?

[Ceaseless]

Just don't take those 20 seconds for granted. Negative time is negative time, period.

But that's not a justification. The whole point of being able to kick out a player who is out of time is that it can give people a way out when the other player is taking forever to play. If they do play and the game manages to reach its conclusion, then the kick out feature has no more reason to exist, the other player is in capacity to end the game normally and they would be acting in bad faith if they decided to use their opponent's negative clock to their advantage.

Is it? There are multiple reasons the clock might exist. We don't necessarily know all of the reasons; BGA may even be keeping that question open-ended. What we do know is that BGA lists that you should not run out of time on the game clock as the first thing on their code of conduct. Not having a say in a mutual request for abandonment is one of the drawbacks to not following that clause. You have failed in your obligation to the other players at the table, and they have been given the right to end the game as a result.