Turn-based clock that doesn’t count work and sleep

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capnemo-1734
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Turn-based clock that doesn’t count work and sleep

Post by capnemo-1734 »

I have noticed something odd about turn-based play.

On another site I use, there is little or no clock pressure, yet games often move faster. On Board Game Arena, players sometimes seem to use as much of the clock as they can.

My own way of thinking about async games is different. When I join one, I am taking on something I mean to tend each day. I will keep every game moving at least once a day, and often two or more times when work and sleep allow it.

That is also why I am careful when choosing a pace on BGA. I choose one I know I can meet. A faster clock may fit my normal play, but I could easily end up matched with players in another time zone and so have to contend with my clock counting down during sleep and work.

I learned that the hard way in an Arena tournament, when I had to get up in the middle of the night to avoid running out of time and being expelled. I am ordinarily a prompt player, yet the clock penalized me.

I do not want real-time play. I like turn-based games. What I want is a better signal for the people who mean to keep their sessions moving each day without clocking their sleep and work.

One thought is keeping a cadence rating based on how people actually play.

A player would set one start time each day marking the start of a fixed eight-hour block, and the cadence-rating clock only ticks down inside that window.

Over time, their usual pace could fall into bands such as Rapid, Prompt, Steady, Leisurely, or Unhurried.* Those would not be marks of merit. Some people may quite happily be Unhurried because that is an honest picture of how they like to play.

Hosts who care about pace could then choose the minimum cadence for tables they open.

This would be almost the reverse of the current setup. BGA now asks you to commit to a pace before you have played, then punishes you if life gets in the way. A cadence rating simply describes the pace you have shown over time.

If you get sick, have a bad weekend, or miss a turn, you are not slapped on the wrist or expelled from a game. That turn is simply folded into your history, and its effect fades as normal play resumes.

I am mostly trying to get at the idea rather than claim this exact setup is the answer. Does this seem like a useful way to match people who want brisk async games without turning them into real-time games?

* As a rough starting point: Rapid, under 1 measured hour; Prompt, under 2; Steady, under 4; Leisurely, under 8; and Unhurried, 8 hours or more. The measure would use a player’s rolling median, not an average, so the odd bad day would have little effect.
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Meeplelowda
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Re: Turn-based clock that doesn’t count work and sleep

Post by Meeplelowda »

capnemo-1734 wrote: 31 July 2026, 00:54 <wall of text>
Playing hours already exist for fast turn-based games, except the window is 12 hours, not 8 hours. But you can definitely choose the inactive window to overlap with your sleeping hours if you want so you never run out of time while you're asleep.

So you basically want to add playing hours to all turn-based games? I don't see how that's necessary at, say, 1 move / 2 days. So which speeds do you want it added to?

If a tournament has no playing hours and too short a round time, or playing hours that are incompatible with your schedule, well obviously you shouldn't enter it.
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capnemo-1734
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Re: Turn-based clock that doesn’t count work and sleep

Post by capnemo-1734 »

Yes, but 8 moves a day is a breakneck pace. While not real time, I don't want to commit to that many daily moves for any one game. Since the site already has a feature where you can set the window, I guess I'm suggesting: allow me access to slower paces (e.g. 3 moves a day) in that window. This allows me to pick up the pace without the concern of work/sleep. The current design feels like it stripped the finer-grained control in the middle of the dial.
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Meeplelowda
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Re: Turn-based clock that doesn’t count work and sleep

Post by Meeplelowda »

capnemo-1734 wrote: 31 July 2026, 11:57 Yes, but 8 moves a day is a breakneck pace. While not real time, I don't want to commit to that many daily moves for any one game. Since the site already has a feature where you can set the window, I guess I'm suggesting: allow me access to slower paces (e.g. 3 moves a day) in that window. This allows me to pick up the pace without the concern of work/sleep. The current design feels like it stripped the finer-grained control in the middle of the dial.
You may be misunderstanding what 8 moves per day means. It doesn't mean YOU have to make 8 moves per day. It means the TABLE collectively makes 8 moves per day, assuming everyone uses the maximum increment on the clock. So at a 4-player table you'd only be expected to make 2 moves per day on average, unless your opponents are particularly speedy, then it may be 3 or 4.
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Shivaware
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Re: Turn-based clock that doesn’t count work and sleep

Post by Shivaware »

Meeplelowda wrote: 01 August 2026, 01:48
capnemo-1734 wrote: 31 July 2026, 11:57 Yes, but 8 moves a day is a breakneck pace. While not real time, I don't want to commit to that many daily moves for any one game. Since the site already has a feature where you can set the window, I guess I'm suggesting: allow me access to slower paces (e.g. 3 moves a day) in that window. This allows me to pick up the pace without the concern of work/sleep. The current design feels like it stripped the finer-grained control in the middle of the dial.
You may be misunderstanding what 8 moves per day means. It doesn't mean YOU have to make 8 moves per day. It means the TABLE collectively makes 8 moves per day, assuming everyone uses the maximum increment on the clock. So at a 4-player table you'd only be expected to make 2 moves per day on average, unless your opponents are particularly speedy, then it may be 3 or 4.
I think there is some merit to offering slower speeds with playing hours.

The exact meaning of 8 moves a day is that 1.5 hours are added to your clock each turn up to a maximum of 12 hours. You might be okay if you only make moves twice a day, but you could also easily run out of time. If you are playing with opponents that make their moves within a few minutes, you will run out of time if you only make 4 moves a day.
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Meeplelowda
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Re: Turn-based clock that doesn’t count work and sleep

Post by Meeplelowda »

Shivaware wrote: 01 August 2026, 02:43 I think there is some merit to offering slower speeds with playing hours.
I agree, but there has to be a limit. What would playing hours even mean at a speed where the increment is 2 days?
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BarnardsStar
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Re: Turn-based clock that doesn’t count work and sleep

Post by BarnardsStar »

capnemo-1734 wrote: 31 July 2026, 00:54 On another site I use, there is little or no clock pressure, yet games often move faster.
Can you explain what you mean by "little or no clock pressure"? How do they encourage games to move in a timely fashion, and avoid people wandering away mid-game, never to return?
capnemo-1734 wrote: 31 July 2026, 00:54 One thought is keeping a cadence rating based on how people actually play.

[...]

Hosts who care about pace could then choose the minimum cadence for tables they open.

This would be almost the reverse of the current setup. BGA now asks you to commit to a pace before you have played, then punishes you if life gets in the way. A cadence rating simply describes the pace you have shown over time.
So you're saying players with a demonstrated history of being "Unhurried" would not be at all able to join Prompt tables?

It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure why you're limiting "cadence" to an 8-hour window that the player gets to decide on. Surely other players care about how quickly the table moves in general?
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Shivaware
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Re: Turn-based clock that doesn’t count work and sleep

Post by Shivaware »

BarnardsStar wrote: 01 August 2026, 05:04
capnemo-1734 wrote: 31 July 2026, 00:54 On another site I use, there is little or no clock pressure, yet games often move faster.
Can you explain what you mean by "little or no clock pressure"? How do they encourage games to move in a timely fashion, and avoid people wandering away mid-game, never to return?
I'm pretty sure I know the site he is talking about. You really can take all the time you want without being punished. After 30 days without a move, games are just deleted, so people can avoid losses if they stop playing. The catch is, after 24 hours, you are forced to play in the game that has been waiting the longest, so you can't play anything else if you try to avoid a loss that way.

I can't say I've noticed games moving faster there, and I've definitely encountered glacial players that ignore requested playing speeds and can't be expelled.
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Jellby
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Re: Turn-based clock that doesn’t count work and sleep

Post by Jellby »

Meeplelowda wrote: 01 August 2026, 01:48 It doesn't mean YOU have to make 8 moves per day. It means the TABLE collectively makes 8 moves per day, assuming everyone uses the maximum increment on the clock.
Right, but with the right (or wrong) alignment, if everyone else plays instantly, you might be required to make 8 moves per day.

Expect 8 total moves per day, but be ready to make 8 moves yourself per day.
Shivaware wrote: 01 August 2026, 02:43 I think there is some merit to offering slower speeds with playing hours.
I'd argue that anything that could potentially result in running out time when having 8 hour sleep breaks and being able to make immediate moves the rest of the day should have playing hours. That translates to 4 turns per day or more.

Otherwise, yes, the possibility of setting playing hours for slower speeds would be nice too, but so would the flexibility of setting window lengths different from 12 hours.
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capnemo-1734
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Re: Turn-based clock that doesn’t count work and sleep

Post by capnemo-1734 »

BarnardsStar wrote: 01 August 2026, 05:04 Can you explain what you mean by "little or no clock pressure"?
You don't get dinged or expelled. The current model is punitive. The pressure is a game ending inconclusively because some impatient person pulled your ripcord. I don't mind my cadence rating suffering momentarily (from sickness, sleep, whatever) knowing it will heal.
BarnardsStar wrote: 01 August 2026, 05:04 How do they encourage games to move in a timely fashion, and avoid people wandering away mid-game, never to return?

So you're saying players with a demonstrated history of being "Unhurried" would not be at all able to join Prompt tables?
Yup. Hosts are already vetting who can come to the table. I'm suggesting using carrot over stick and no expulsions.

Let me put it a different way. I'll bet most people play most games at the same pace most of the time. I suspect users are not individually tweaking tables except for new games (which already doubles your time). When I play, I move all tables swiftly. I am not thinking of any one table, only my queue -- and I check in several times a day. So table paces are irrelevant to me (except when joining). Thus, my suggestion to rate the player pace and not the table pace.

When a host opens a table he says "I allow people with a history of playing at X pace."

The wandering away thing can be handled in various ways and I'm not specifying that. Another site closes a table if not touched after 30 days and eventually forces you to make a move in lagging tables before touching the games you still care about.
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