Bot “Player” cannot be reported to BGA

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FrankJones
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Re: Bot “Player” cannot be reported to BGA

Post by FrankJones »

yazavats wrote: 29 August 2026, 02:32

Which brings me to the last point of calling out smurf solidarity. By that I didn't mean you condone or partake in it, but you still alleviate it by being extremely lax about calling it out.

Your posts have gone from mildly odd to off-the-rails absurd.

So, because I am slightly less inclined to call an account a Smurf than you are, that constitutes "Smurf Solidarity" , even though I have stated I oppose smurfing?

I think you are using words that do not mean what you think they mean.

Also, haven't you said twice now you are finished posting in this thread? Is anyone stopping you from seeing yourself out the door rather than remaining here and posting more?
FrankJones
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Re: Bot “Player” cannot be reported to BGA

Post by FrankJones »

yazavats wrote: 29 August 2026, 02:32

Which translates into the second concept which is that if something looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

If the account this thread was started for with all of its red flags doesn't arouse your suspicion, than nothing short of someone straight up admitting or getting caught is enough.

Which brings me to the last point of calling out smurf solidarity. By that I didn't mean you condone or partake in it, but you still alleviate it by being extremely lax about calling it out.

Some people specialize in one game.

Look at my account. Am I a Pente Smurf? Connect6? Aquatica? I have strong win rates in those games and ascended the Elo ranks quickly. It just so happens I had experience in those games before playing them on BGA, which can easily be the case for any player whose profile indicates "sudden" high proficiency at a game.

Am I not a Smurf because I fail to meet your other criteria? So, if a Smurf starts dabbling in other games, that Smurf ceases to be a Smurf? I mean, if my profile had only one of those 3 games I mentioned, you would say I am "obviously" a Smurf, right? Because apparently your criteria for "conclusive proof" of a Smurf is someone who plays only one game and plays it very well.

And I'm not saying the account referenced in the first post is not a Smurf account; I'm saying the evidence is far less conclusive than some in this thread believe.
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Jellby
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Re: Bot “Player” cannot be reported to BGA

Post by Jellby »

As I understand it it, a smurf is an account that intentionally and maliciously poses as inexperienced, while actually playing at a much higher level.

As explained, there are several ways an account could appear less experienced than it actually is, while doing nothing wrong (without malice, intent, or both). Those should not be called smurfs. The listed telltales could indicate that an account is more experienced than it seems and may be a sign for other players to treat this account as a high-level player and not a noob. But they don't indicate intent or malice. Regarding the usage of BGA/game settings, I find it suspicious if I see a new account that seems to know and use all the "bells and whistles", because most people don't; but it's suspicious of the account not being a noob, not suspicious of smurfing.

Even if you could prove an account is a smurf, you'd have a hard time reporting it, as that by itself doesn't break any rule (I believe). Only if you can prove a smurf account is simultaneously owned by someone playing also a different account could something be done. That is forbidden and reportable, regardless of whether the "secondary" account behaves as a smurf or not, so it's not smurfing that's reportable here, it's double-accounting. In practice, I guess most actual smurfs are indeed double accounts, because what would the point be if you don't have another account to benefit? But it's the double account you have to prove.
FrankJones
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Re: Bot “Player” cannot be reported to BGA

Post by FrankJones »

I tend to agree with how you defined Smurf, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus. I've certainly seen people throw the term around simply to describe innocuous and unavoidable situations such as the ones you described, in which a player is simply experienced at the game.

It's unfair for people to suggest that those players are doing anything wrong. The situation usually resolves itself very quickly anyway because of the elevated k-factor.

Furthermore, there's a relatively easy way to reduce the harm done by Smurfing: Use a reduced k-factor for the Elo result of an established player (more than 20 completed games) playing a game against a non-established player.

On at least one other site I've played on, if an established player plays against a non-established player, the established player's Elo change is multiplied by N/20, where N represents the number of games the non-established player has completed.

In that situation, established players wouldn't be risking Elo when playing a "beginner" who is actually skilled. Which makes sense, for the same reason beginners get the elevated k-factor. We don't yet know the true ability of the non-established player.

Factor in that a player's Elo never goes below 100 once 100 is reached, it seems even more bizarre to me that an established player who has an Elo of, let's say, 300, would incur an Elo loss assigned to an Elo difference of 300 when losing to a new player who 0 games completed and 0 Elo. If an artificial floor of 100 Elo is going to be set, then use that same floor when calculating Elo changes in games against such players.

This would also make people more willing to play against new players, something I generally avoid.
FrankJones
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Re: Bot “Player” cannot be reported to BGA

Post by FrankJones »

Jellby wrote: 29 August 2026, 07:58 Regarding the usage of BGA/game settings, I find it suspicious if I see a new account that seems to know and use all the "bells and whistles", because most people don't; but it's suspicious of the account not being a noob, not suspicious of smurfing.
That's an interesting point. With regard to BGA settings, yes, if a seemingly completely new account seems to know all the quirks and inner workings of the various site functionalities, that would be a bit odd.

But within a specific game I wouldn't find it too odd. Perhaps it depends on the game. Ark Nova has a lot of settings. If a beginner with 0 Elo and 0 rated games is posting an open game with all the fancy stuff, marine worlds, extra maps, peaceful mode disabled, yes, that player likely knows the game. (Especially if that player has obviously played a lot of solo / friendly games, which can easily be checked by viewing the profile.)

For other games? Let's take a simple one that I know you're familiar with. Aquatica.
This one has very few options, but many new players use the beginner options. My family and I acquired the physical game, and after one read of the rule book, we decided that the starting goals were silly, and the "no kings" idea was silly, and that we wanted to draft the kings.

And if I saw a beginner here looking to play with the "advanced" setting of random goals and draft king, I would think nothing of it other than the player has at least read the rule book.
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Ingoschi
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Re: Bot “Player” cannot be reported to BGA

Post by Ingoschi »

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... lish/smurf

in British English (in online gaming)
(smɜːf IPA Pronunciation Guide ) slang
verb
1. (usually intr)
to conceal one's true level of skill and experience in order to compete against more inexperienced players
noun
2. a player who conceals his or her true level of skill and experience in order to compete against more inexperienced players

Word origin
C20: from PapaSmurf and Smurfette, online aliases assumed by the originators of the practice, named after characters in the cartoon The Smurfs
FrankJones
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Re: Bot “Player” cannot be reported to BGA

Post by FrankJones »

Interesting. Notable in those definitions is the phrase "... to compete against [less experienced] players."

Someone could do that without even smurfing. Just join an open game posted by an inexperienced player. Which, I assume the inexperienced players don't really mind anyway, otherwise thy would set the Elo filters to exclude high-skill players.

[I do find it odd how often I see an open game hosted by an inexperienced player, and no Elo filter has been set.]
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Meeplelowda
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Re: Bot “Player” cannot be reported to BGA

Post by Meeplelowda »

FrankJones wrote: 29 August 2026, 10:29 [I do find it odd how often I see an open game hosted by an inexperienced player, and no Elo filter has been set.]
That relates to your point about inexperienced (on BGA) players not knowing the intricacies of the interface.
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FrankJones
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Re: Bot “Player” cannot be reported to BGA

Post by FrankJones »

Meeplelowda wrote: 29 August 2026, 17:01
FrankJones wrote: 29 August 2026, 10:29 [I do find it odd how often I see an open game hosted by an inexperienced player, and no Elo filter has been set.]
That relates to your point about inexperienced (on BGA) players not knowing the intricacies of the interface.
Inexperienced at that game, not inexperienced on BGA.

I see people who have been here for years and have played thousands of games posting an open game for a specific game that player is a beginner or apprentice at.

Maybe that person doesn't know how to use the basic Elo filter, but if that's the case, it's not because of being new to the site.
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Jellby
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Re: Bot “Player” cannot be reported to BGA

Post by Jellby »

Maybe they're already an expert at the game, even if it's the first time they play it on BGA. Maybe they don't care about their opponents' levels.
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