Proposal: Give the Second Player a Small VP Compensation

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SYushen
Posts: 54
Joined: 01 October 2021, 19:20

Proposal: Give the Second Player a Small VP Compensation

Post by SYushen »

In 7 Wonders Duel, the first player appears to have a significant advantage, with BGA data suggesting a win rate of around 55%.

The simplest way to reduce this imbalance would be to give the second player a small VP compensation.

I think a fractional VP bonus would work better than an integer bonus: for example, +0.5, +1.5 or +2.5 VP. Besides compensating for the first-player advantage, this would also eliminate the need for the current tiebreaker.

Personally, I have never found the current tiebreaker — points from blue cards — particularly convincing. Something like remaining coins modulo 3 would arguably reflect actual efficiency better. But with a half-point compensation, this question disappears entirely: tied scores simply become impossible.

The real question is therefore the size of the compensation.

I suspect +0.5 VP is too small to compensate for the disadvantage of going second. +2.5 VP may ultimately be appropriate, but +1.5 VP seems like the more conservative value to test first. It would be a relatively small rule change, and BGA has more than enough game data to evaluate its effect statistically.

There is also an interesting precedent in The Lord of the Rings: Duel for Middle-earth: the second player starts with one additional coin. Given the different economic scale of the two games, that bonus is substantial and suggests that compensating the second player is already considered a reasonable balancing mechanism in this system.

I would therefore like to propose Second Player: +1.5 VP as an optional variant on BGA.

If testing shows that it meaningfully improves the first/second-player balance, I would also support eventually using such a compensation in Arena. With the enormous number of games played on BGA, this is exactly the kind of small balance adjustment that could be tested empirically rather than only debated theoretically.

I hope other players would be interested in trying it, and perhaps it could eventually receive official recognition as a competitive variant.
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jjthejetplane246
Posts: 36
Joined: 11 January 2019, 18:33

Re: Proposal: Give the Second Player a Small VP Compensation

Post by jjthejetplane246 »

maybe @giovep can chime in here as he and some of the top Italian players did a lot of work building and designing an AI for playing 7wd base game. They saw the same problem (~67% winrate for player 1 with high-level play) and came up with some cool solutions that would be easy to implement on BGA. A couple standouts:

a) give player 2 6-7 extra coins. their analysis saw that giving an extra coin to player 2 was about a 2-3% drop in player 1 win rate.

b) allow player 2 to decide who gets to go first in each of the 2 wonder drafts at the beginning of the game and then let the game progress naturally from there. Cuts the winrate to about 55% which is more acceptable (this is about white's advantage in chess). We did several small tournaments by doing this format manually and it felt really good. It was much harder to get locked out of a game early since player 2 was guaranteed to have the same or more extra turn wonders which makes it harder for player 1 to use one of theirs to go first in age 2. I believe @giovep captured data on all of the games and was able to reasonable verify the 55% winrate that the AI had come to.

The problem with just giving player 2 VP is not all games end in civilian victories so you're ignoring science and military which need to be considered. I really like option b and would be down to see it as a variant.
joaoap2002
Posts: 1
Joined: 03 September 2026, 18:05

Re: Proposal: Give the Second Player a Small VP Compensation

Post by joaoap2002 »

i feel like something like this would definitely be more appropriate than VP points due to military/science victories. in my home games we do exactly this - second player chooses who goes first in both wonder drafts, and we’ve had good success with that. we’ve also done two extra coins for second player but that actually felt too good of an advantage, though of course we’re not playing at the highest of levels.

ps - love the videos, keep up the good work :)
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SYushen
Posts: 54
Joined: 01 October 2021, 19:20

Re: Proposal: Give the Second Player a Small VP Compensation

Post by SYushen »

jjthejetplane246 wrote: 11 September 2026, 01:10 maybe @giovep can chime in here as he and some of the top Italian players did a lot of work building and designing an AI for playing 7wd base game. They saw the same problem (~67% winrate for player 1 with high-level play) and came up with some cool solutions that would be easy to implement on BGA. A couple standouts:

a) give player 2 6-7 extra coins. their analysis saw that giving an extra coin to player 2 was about a 2-3% drop in player 1 win rate.

b) allow player 2 to decide who gets to go first in each of the 2 wonder drafts at the beginning of the game and then let the game progress naturally from there. Cuts the winrate to about 55% which is more acceptable (this is about white's advantage in chess). We did several small tournaments by doing this format manually and it felt really good. It was much harder to get locked out of a game early since player 2 was guaranteed to have the same or more extra turn wonders which makes it harder for player 1 to use one of theirs to go first in age 2. I believe @giovep captured data on all of the games and was able to reasonable verify the 55% winrate that the AI had come to.

The problem with just giving player 2 VP is not all games end in civilian victories so you're ignoring science and military which need to be considered. I really like option b and would be down to see it as a variant.
VP compensation is the smallest possible change because it does not alter the actual dynamics of the game.

I strongly disagree with the proposal of giving Player 2 an extra 6–7 coins. That is a very large economic intervention in 7WD. It changes purchasing power, resource pressure, the value of discarding cards, wonder timing, and potentially many strategic decisions throughout the game. Even if it produces a statistically balanced win rate, it achieves that by noticeably changing how the game is played.

By contrast, giving Player 2 something like **+1.5 VP** leaves the entire game untouched until final scoring. The card economy, wonder draft, military track, science race and turn-order tactics all remain exactly the same.

It is true that VP compensation only directly affects civilian victories. But I do not think that invalidates the idea. The purpose of this proposal is not to construct a theoretically perfect correction for every possible victory condition; it is to test the **least invasive adjustment possible**.

If +1.5 VP already moves the overall win rate significantly closer to 50%, that would be a very strong result for such a tiny rule change. If it proves insufficient, the value can then be adjusted based on BGA data.

Option B is much more interesting to me than the 6–7 coin solution, but it still changes the opening structure and wonder-draft strategy. I would therefore prefer testing VP compensation first precisely because it preserves the original game almost completely.
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