Abuse of the "leaving for free" system

[Magicnerd]

I was playing a turn-based game of Arnak with another player and unfortunately I was too late with my next move because I was unavailable for a bit more than a day, resulting in minus clock in the game.

So this gives the other player the option to quit the game instantly without karma loss, giving me a karma penalty. Ok, fine, understandable rule.

However, this player did something else. He continued to play the game with me all the way until the very last turn of the game. At this point, he realised he was going to lose in the final scoring, and decided to still execute his right to quit the game, resulting in a loss and karma penalty for me.

Naturally, this is extremely disgusting behavior and abuse of the system that is in place. Also, it is completely legal as there is no ruling against this on the site to report someone for.

It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth, and in my opinion such behavior is way, way worse than running out of clock time. He should get the karma penalty, not me.

In my opinion, once an opponent decides to not exercise the right to quit the game when the opponent is out of time, they should not keep this right all throughout the game. Once they decide to keep playing, there should be protection in place to not have this system abused to BM chicken out of a loss. Solution is very simple: Just offer opponents the option to keep playing (resetting the clock for a certain amount), or to quit the game. Then when they decide to keep playing and the opponent keeps running out of time yet again, just let the option appear again. Doesn't seem that complicated to me.

[Silene]

Ok you've been slow only in the one turn you say... so why hasn't your clock recovered into the positive later in the game? You couldn't be kicked then.

Sounds like you joined a game with a time setting that is too fast for you. Otherwise you could've recovered easily once you realized you got into the negative. Or did you not take the negative timer as a hint that you should hurry?

[tbhp]

That's why there was a recent suggestion that players should only be allowed to expel the moment a player goes out of time. If they complete their next move without choosing to expel, then they lose that option for the rest of the game.

This would force people to decide right now and then what they want to do, eliminating the possibility to pull off shenanigans like what you experienced.

[tbhp]

Ok you've been slow only in the one turn you say... so why hasn't your clock recovered into the positive later in the game? You couldn't be kicked then.

Sounds like you joined a game with a time setting that is too fast for you. Otherwise you could've recovered easily once you realized you got into the negative. Or did you not take the negative timer as a hint that you should hurry?

That seems to distract from the post's issue. Whether OP could have recovered in this particular case is irrelevant, it doesn't change that what their opponent did was wrong. If they wanted to expel, they should have done so when they got the opportunity, rather than play with OP's feelings and make them think they wanted to continue the game fairly, when in reality they were never planning to let them win.

Also, in tournaments the clock doesn't recover, and tournaments (and Arena) are the main thing where fairness matters the most.

[Silene]

..., when in reality they were never planning to let them win.

But this is not true. In this particular game, the opponnent let them play on and OP at some point had +6 hours of thinking time. They wouldn't let them get back into the positive, if they were never gonna let them win because atthatpoint, it was out of their control. Only then OP took another 14 hours in this 4moves per day game end THEN got kicked. So opponnent gave the chance to win. But OP didn't take the chance but abused opponents patience again. Maybe that was the last straw when opponnent decided this was too much.
I think opponnent just wanted the game to be over and were annoyed it was taking so long again.

[tbhp]

..., when in reality they were never planning to let them win.

But this is not true. In this particular game, the opponnent let them play on and OP at some point had +6 hours of thinking time. They wouldn't let them get back into the positive, if they were never gonna let them win because atthatpoint, it was out of their control. Only then OP took another 14 hours in this 4moves per day game end THEN got kicked. So opponnent gave the chance to win. But OP didn't take the chance but abused opponents patience again. Maybe that was the last straw when opponnent decided this was too much.
I think opponnent just wanted the game to be over and were annoyed it was taking so long again.

OP's opponent took a gamble. It seems that they wanted to continue the game to get a chance at winning it fairly, while also knowing they were willing to pull the trigger if it had to come to that. They couldn't know for sure if OP would recover or not. But in the end, they proved what their intentions were.

It's possible that they expelled as a result of being annoyed with OP's time wasting, but that doesn't seem the most likely considering they expelled right when they realized they were losing, and with only one turn left.

I'm a bit tired of seeing people try to defend the behavior. It's easy to say "oh but they just legitimately got fed up with their opponent", when in reality it's pretty obvious that the player wanted to avoid a loss at the very end. If they actually cared about concluding the game fairly, they wouldn't be trying to find excuses to justify them leaving the game. Those excuses are a pretext, a way to make them feel better about themselves and like they were in the right to do what they did.

I'm just as annoyed as anyone else when people take very long to play. Yet I never kick out. Why is that? Maybe because I actually care about seeing how the game concludes.

[Silene]

..., when in reality they were never planning to let them win.

But this is not true. In this particular game, the opponnent let them play on and OP at some point had +6 hours of thinking time. They wouldn't let them get back into the positive, if they were never gonna let them win because atthatpoint, it was out of their control. Only then OP took another 14 hours in this 4moves per day game end THEN got kicked. So opponnent gave the chance to win. But OP didn't take the chance but abused opponents patience again. Maybe that was the last straw when opponnent decided this was too much.
I think opponnent just wanted the game to be over and were annoyed it was taking so long again.

OP's opponent took a gamble. It seems that they wanted to continue the game to get a chance at winning it fairly, while also knowing they were willing to pull the trigger if it had to come to that. They couldn't know for sure if OP would recover or not. But in the end, they proved what their intentions were.

It's possible that they expelled as a result of being annoyed with OP's time wasting, but that doesn't seem the most likely considering they expelled right when they realized they were losing, and with only one turn left.

That's when you read the worst intentions into people's actions. I try not to do that.

[tbhp]

That's when you read the worst intentions into people's actions. I try not to do that.

I can see that, but it's not like any interpretation would be great either. I mean, even if I'm wrong and they just got fed up, they are still someone who doesn't care much about competitive values.

[Magicnerd]

..., when in reality they were never planning to let them win.

But this is not true. In this particular game, the opponnent let them play on and OP at some point had +6 hours of thinking time. They wouldn't let them get back into the positive, if they were never gonna let them win because atthatpoint, it was out of their control. Only then OP took another 14 hours in this 4moves per day game end THEN got kicked. So opponnent gave the chance to win. But OP didn't take the chance but abused opponents patience again. Maybe that was the last straw when opponnent decided this was too much.
I think opponnent just wanted the game to be over and were annoyed it was taking so long again.

I would agree with you, if it were not for the fact that it was the very last turn that they chose to quit. I even passed already (meaning that opponent did not have to wait for me anymore at all at any point). So in this case, it's blatantly obvious that the reason for quitting was toxic.

But besides this anecdotal evidence, the argument in general is anyway the same. A rule system with good intentions is quite open to being exploited and abused by toxic players, defeating the whole purpose of this system contributing to a more healthy playing environment.

[SiRan90]

That's when you read the worst intentions into people's actions. I try not to do that.

I can see that, but it's not like any interpretation would be great either. I mean, even if I'm wrong and they just got fed up, they are still someone who doesn't care much about competitive values.

Maybe the kicker had something coming up and and didn't want to have their own time go into the red themselves. Assuming someone doesn't have competitive values because it fits your narrative is meh