Abuse of the "leaving for free" system

[RandomUN]

[...]
As already stated by me (OP) before, I passed for the last round already at the point where my opponent quit. This means he did not have to wait for me at all anymore and could finish the game right then and there. He opted to use his "bailout" instead by using his quit option.

I thought the button to expel you is only there when your timer is running. How do you expel someone whose turn it is not?

They didn't expel, they conveniently used the fact that you can leave and neutralize the result when your opponent is out of time. Not getting a win, but avoiding a loss. Not technically an expulsion, but same kind of result and intent.

Except that isn't what happened because we can see the game in question. OP's opponent ended their turn, waited 14 hours, and when OP still hadn't taken their turn, chose to expel them. This was the second time OP had gone over their time and had been in the positive when their opponent finished their turn. They were given two full chances to change their behavior and got penalized when they didn't.

[Magicnerd]

I thought the button to expel you is only there when your timer is running. How do you expel someone whose turn it is not?

They didn't expel, they conveniently used the fact that you can leave and neutralize the result when your opponent is out of time. Not getting a win, but avoiding a loss. Not technically an expulsion, but same kind of result and intent.

Except that isn't what happened because we can see the game in question. OP's opponent ended their turn, waited 14 hours, and when OP still hadn't taken their turn, chose to expel them. This was the second time OP had gone over their time and had been in the positive when their opponent finished their turn. They were given two full chances to change their behavior and got penalized when they didn't.

Blatantly false. I passed the round, which is clearly visible in the log. The game was quit by opponent after that. In Arnak, passing means you can not take any actions anymore for the round (it was the very end of the very last round of the game, and we made it all the way there despite me going into minus clocktime much earlier in the game).

And like I'm saying over and over, this particular incident is not the point of this whole discussion. The point is the abusable system at work.

If people keep ignoring this point to keep hammering on the fact that I ran horribly out of time (YES, guilty as charged), have fun with that. I made my point.

[tbhp]

I thought the button to expel you is only there when your timer is running. How do you expel someone whose turn it is not?

They didn't expel, they conveniently used the fact that you can leave and neutralize the result when your opponent is out of time. Not getting a win, but avoiding a loss. Not technically an expulsion, but same kind of result and intent.

Except that isn't what happened because we can see the game in question. OP's opponent ended their turn, waited 14 hours, and when OP still hadn't taken their turn, chose to expel them. This was the second time OP had gone over their time and had been in the positive when their opponent finished their turn. They were given two full chances to change their behavior and got penalized when they didn't.

That's confusing. My guess is that OP was mistaken about their final turn actually being their final turn. So they stopped playing when in fact the game went back to them.

[Silene]

Blatantly false. I passed the round, which is clearly visible in the log. The game was quit by opponent after that. In Arnak, passing means you can not take any actions anymore for the round (it was the very last round of the game).

The log shows you didn't pass yourself because the passing action was done (automatically) AFTER your turn was skipped. So are you saying you DID pass but the game didn't process your action? Or are you just misremembering whether you have passed or not?

[RandomUN]

They didn't expel, they conveniently used the fact that you can leave and neutralize the result when your opponent is out of time. Not getting a win, but avoiding a loss. Not technically an expulsion, but same kind of result and intent.

Except that isn't what happened because we can see the game in question. OP's opponent ended their turn, waited 14 hours, and when OP still hadn't taken their turn, chose to expel them. This was the second time OP had gone over their time and had been in the positive when their opponent finished their turn. They were given two full chances to change their behavior and got penalized when they didn't.

Blatantly false. I passed the round, which is clearly visible in the log. The game was quit by opponent after that. In Arnak, passing means you can not take any actions anymore for the round (it was the very end of the very last round of the game, and we made it all the way there despite me going into minus clocktime much earlier in the game).

And like I'm saying over and over, this particular incident is not the point of this whole discussion. The point is the abusable system at work.

If people keep ignoring this point to keep hammering on the fact that I ran horribly out of time (YES, guilty as charged), have fun with that. I made my point.

Please go look at the game log yourself. Your opponent ended their turn at 03:39 AM. That makes it your turn. Your opponent skipped you at 05:33 PM. That's six minutes shy of 15 hours of it being your turn.

I don't know if you thought you took a turn you didn't, or thought the game was over a round earlier, but your clock was -7hr 47m at the time you were skipped. Your clock had been in the positive for 7 hr 7m before your opponent even had a chance to kick you.

You started this thread to say others are abusing the system to get unfair wins, but in the instance that started this thread it shows that your opponent gave you multiple chances to appropriately finish the game before getting fed up and kicking.

Any proposed reset of the clock would change nothing here because you had gone back into the negative after getting a positive clock.

Any solution to the problem being discussed that would not allow a player to kick another player when they repeatedly run their clock into the negative is creating a different problem from the one it solves.

[tbhp]

Any solution to the problem being discussed that would not allow a player to kick another player when they repeatedly run their clock into the negative is creating a different problem from the one it solves.

Oh, the kicking system definitely should exist. It gives people incentive to play within a certain time frame. It's just that it should never be used, either. Because then that defeats the point of trying to complete games in the first place. The point of the feature is the threat it poses to the players.

Ideally, kicking should be offered as an option, but it should also come with a penalty, to make people understand that you are not supposed to do it. This way, people would be less likely to kick out, but people would still try to not get in the red, because the possibility of being kicked out would still exist.

[RazorOz]

This type of abuse definitely goes on, but I don't really have a solution. The problem is making it so you have to time people out as soon as they're out of time and if you don't then you lose your chance doesn't work for me, this would actually incentivise players to immediately boot someone out of time, I like to give players a chance if they're actually playing.

The abuse definitely goes on, I suspect it's far more widespread in multi-player games, I used to remember at Heat you'd get players wait until the last turn to desperately try and boot someone out who could have been booted out ages ago, once they knew they'd lost. It's actually the worst of all worlds if you're in a game like that, because you're effectively playing a game you can never win, either you will lose, or the result will be void.

[Cile]

Blatantly false. I passed the round, which is clearly visible in the log. The game was quit by opponent after that. In Arnak, passing means you can not take any actions anymore for the round (it was the very end of the very last round of the game, and we made it all the way there despite me going into minus clocktime much earlier in the game).

It sounds like OP thought they had passed when they didn't, causing them to not check for their turn and their opponent booted them when they got tired of waiting.

And like I'm saying over and over, this particular incident is not the point of this whole discussion. The point is the abusable system at work.

What do you propose instead? Have the system automatically end the game as soon as a player runs out of time? That's the only alternative I can think of where a player can't decide only to kick if they are losing, while also preventing other users from ignoring the speed of the table and running up the clock.

[Jellby]

They didn't expel, they conveniently used the fact that you can leave and neutralize the result when your opponent is out of time.

So they neutralized the game instead of getting a win and givin a penalty to the other player... I'd say they were very nice.

[Silene]

They didn't expel, they conveniently used the fact that you can leave and neutralize the result when your opponent is out of time.

So they neutralized the game instead of getting a win and givin a penalty to the other player... I'd say they were very nice.

No, they expelled. tbhp just misunderstood OP / didn't look up the game.