Cheating

[Michael417]

Comparing digital fraud to a referee missing a split-second field call is a logical fallacy. Board Game Arena isn't a stadium with a whistle, it's a digital platform with an immutable data log. When the Olympics or the World Chess Federation uncovers doping or engine-use after a tournament, they don’t say "what's done is done." They strip the medals, ban the players, and fix the historical record. True sportsmanship is about protecting the integrity of the game, not protecting the unearned titles of cheaters just because a timer expired. If BGA adopts the mindset of "once the season ends, the results are locked forever," they actively incentivize cheaters to go all-out in the final hours of a season. It creates a toxic game where the winner isn't the best Spades player, but the person best at manipulating the queue before the timer expires.

[tbhp]

Comparing digital fraud to a referee missing a split-second field call is a logical fallacy. Board Game Arena isn't a stadium with a whistle, it's a digital platform with an immutable data log. When the Olympics or the World Chess Federation uncovers doping or engine-use after a tournament, they don’t say "what's done is done." They strip the medals, ban the players, and fix the historical record. True sportsmanship is about protecting the integrity of the game, not protecting the unearned titles of cheaters just because a timer expired.

We also have the recorded proof that Maradona cheated in the world cup, yet no one is pushing for Argentina's title to be revoked.

It is true that what you say happens, but it seems inconsistent with how other cases are handled, like my example. My position on the other hand is pretty consistent, I think it's good sportsmanship to always accept the results. If we don't, then no one is ever safe from having their titles revoked. What if false accusations happen and are believed? In my view, what happens on the pitch must stay on the pitch. It must not become a court case or whatever. And if you think something unfair happened, well people already think plenty of things are unfair in games. But the only truth that matters is the reality of what happened. That seems to me a pretty fundamental principle of sports.

Obviously, we should not hide the truth either. If someone did something specific to help them win, it should be communicated, so that people have the information and can make up their own opinion on it, according to their own values. But it doesn't change the fact that they won.

[Michael417]

Accepting a fraudulent result as truth is gaslighting the entire community. Choosing to honor a fraudulent result just because it's easier than investigating it isn't "good sportsmanship" it’s a surrender of competitive integrity.

[tbhp]

Accepting a fraudulent result as truth is gaslighting the entire community. Choosing to honor a fraudulent result just because it's easier than investigating it isn't "good sportsmanship" it’s a surrender of competitive integrity.

I edited my comment to add that I don't think we should hide it. I think it's good to investigate and understand what happened. But I don't think it should have a bearing on the results.

[ChiefPointThief]

Another thing to add to this conversation is that the majority of the time in these cases the cheaters are reported BEFORE the competition comes to an end. And sometimes by numerous people.

Tbhp there are tons of examples of people having their titles stripped after the fact. Reggie Bush had his heisman award taken away for accepting money to go to a university. He actually didn’t cheat within the games and still got his award that he earned on the field stripped.

There was a little league team (youth baseball) that got a huge buzz years ago. Won the title. They were congratulated all over. The president visited them etc. later on one of the teams they beat very badly complained because they obliterated them. It was found that some of the kids were from outside districts. Their title was stripped. I’m unfamiliar with your soccer example. But the list of people having their titles removed after the fact throughout history is probably way longer than those who were found guilty and nothing was done.

[FrankJones]

It is true though that in the Olympics, medals can be stripped after the fact. And in the U.S., college football (American football) championships can be vacated after the fact.

I wouldn't have objected if the 2017 Houston Astros World Series title had been revoked.

So, it depends on the sport and the governing body.

[tbhp]

The problem if you go with the logic that titles can become invalid because they weren't obtained the regular way, is you have to apply that logic to any title that was not obtained the regular way. So now you have to accept that many of the titles we consider valid would become invalid. Only the ones that didn't have anything wonky happen at any point remain valid.

It's just impossible to do, and if you are gonna cherry pick and decide which cases make something valid and which do not, that's very subjective and I don't know how you can live with that. A basic principle of competition is that personal decisions shouldn't come into play, only strict application of the rules. If a decision has to be made by some governing body, at this point the title is being fought in a court, not on a pitch.

It's either it's all valid, or it becomes all chaos.

[FrankJones]

I don't see why stripping a BGA member of an arena title and promoting the runner-up to the actual title would be difficult to do after the fact.

BGA has removed people from the arena leaderboard right near the end of the season. It just happened again in Ark Nova, this week. Yes, some cases might be more difficult than others, but some are easy, aren't they?

[Michael417]

Allowing a fraudulent result to stand sets a dangerous precedent. It tells the community that as long as you don't get caught during the match, your stolen ELO or Arena points are safe. This undermines the integrity of the entire leaderboard. Board Game Arena’s moderation policy specifically allows for retroactive penalties because collusion is only visible once you can analyze the entire game log after the fact. The result should absolutely be nullified

[yakko_]

At this point the "you can't go back and undo anything or it's all chaos" argument seems like trolling. I've already addressed it, and Michael417 has, and ChiefPointThief, and FrankJones.
There is a difference between honest mistakes during a game and cheating. This thread was not opened to complain of judgment calls, and it is irrelevant to remain fixated on ordinary in-game violations. We understand that Maradona's handball or uncalled traveling in an NBA game or incorrect ball/strike calls in baseball have happened and affected the outcome of games and even championships, and they are not open to adjuducation after the book is closed. Those are not *cheating*.
A list of stripped Olympic medals is easily readable on wikipedia, and several people have provided numerous other examples where *of course* titles are revoked, and this is a normal if unfortunate part of sport.