Winning conditions

[The_General_]

I'm disappointed that if all 5 players in a semi-co-op complete their own objectives the result is a tie and no ELO. It should surely be better than that. I feel robbed after doing 3 hours and collecting 2 eggs from the nest.

[Tisaac]

I'm disappointed that if all 5 players in a semi-co-op complete their own objectives the result is a tie and no ELO. It should surely be better than that. I feel robbed after doing 3 hours and collecting 2 eggs from the nest.

And how would ELO work in this case actually ? The whole system is based on the fact that the ELO total gains are always equal to the ELO total loss on a single table so I don't see how that would work.
Having the table counts as a win though would be easy enough to change, but also raises a lot of question in championship and Arena.

[The_General_]

I don't know how it would work, but it shouldn't be zero. If you've completed your own objective, it's a win by definition in the board game. I want to feel I've accomplished something rather than "meh, I wish someone failed their mission or got back stabbed. If only the crew left in the lander before the last marine got on board"
Arena - statistically the two of you are both going to draw the main objective to be successful - so it's luck of the draw on the personal objective whether you can do that easy or not.

[Tisaac]

I don't know how it would work, but it shouldn't be zero. If you've completed your own objective, it's a win by definition in the board game. I want to feel I've accomplished something rather than "meh, I wish someone failed their mission or got back stabbed. If only the crew left in the lander before the last marine got on board"

But that's not what ELO is about ! ELO is not some kind of points saying how much efforts you put into the game, it's supposed to reflect your level as an individual player. So it is not suited at all for coop game, and this is why the coop option on Nemesis just enforce training mode and there are no ELO changes in this mode. We could probably do the same for semi-coop in case the end game reveals that everyone was actually cooperating but again this can mess things up for tournaments or arena where we need individual winners/losers to make people progress in their league.
Sadly, I don't see any better way to handle that with the way BGA is currently working but I have definitively raised the players feedbacks about that since I agree this is a poor experience so maybe someone will come up with a solution.

[DuelChampion]

Alternate thought. Can we implement Table as an additional "Dummy Player" for Elo calculations?
Coop mode ELO 100, Standard mode ELO 200, Deadly Mode ELO 250. (Just sample values)
If you survive and complete your objective you win vs table. If you do not complete your objective or die you lose vs table?
Of course current calculations vs players stay the same.

[Tisaac]

Alternate thought. Can we implement Table as an additional "Dummy Player" for Elo calculations?
Coop mode ELO 100, Standard mode ELO 200, Deadly Mode ELO 250. (Just sample values)
If you survive and complete your objective you win vs table. If you do not complete your objective or die you lose vs table?
Of course current calculations vs players stay the same.

This can be done for full-coop games but I am not sure if that can be done with semi coop, and still does not resolve all the issues with the fact that all players are sharing the victory for tournaments and arena.

[Ch3rryPL]

Hi,
I will just drop one game here: https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=929710182
This was 4 player game, 3 players won, 1 players lost.

Good thing that you implemented mechanis to not get negative Elo for winning, becaues my raw ELO change would be -1,49
Tip for this game, if you are average, just don't play against new players, you can lose a lot, when gaining only minimum or zero ELO if you win.

So if we could add dummy 5th opponent (The Game) with 50% win probability, maybe this would make climbing easier. For now Nemesis has only 1 Good Player Maybe we all are bad, if that's the case.

[The_General_]

Yes I've learned now that I have to host games and exclude newbies - much better to play against people with same or higher elo.