High Trust Deduction or Blunder?

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Sammy McSam
Posts: 87
Joined: 07 April 2021, 20:02

High Trust Deduction or Blunder?

Post by Sammy McSam »

After a disagreement in a high trust masters game yesterday, I put together some analysis:
https://en.doc.boardgamearena.com/User: ... les_page_2
Replay links from Alice & Bob's views under the title.
springiest
Posts: 47
Joined: 17 November 2022, 11:27
Location: Perth, Australia
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Re: High Trust Deduction or Blunder?

Post by springiest »

i agree with u that bob knows he must have had duplicates of both r2 & y1 in his hand at the time he discarded both of them. this concept is formalized as Elimination - u can read it at ur leisure! :) but be wary - there are a lot of nuances and edge-cases (some of which i will go over here).

lets consider two possibilities of what bob's hand could look like -
  1. X y1 r2 y1 (`X` is any random card)
  2. y1 X r2 y1
bob discards y1 and draws the second r2. bob knows that one of his slot2/3/4 is also y1.
  1. r2 X y1 r2
  2. r2 y1 X r2
bob discards r2 and draws a random card. bob also knows that one of his (updated) slot2/3/4 is another r2.
  1. X r2 X y1
  2. X r2 y1 X
in the first example, bob's slot2 & slot4 are playable. in the second, slot2 & slot3 are. (i could make another case where slot3 & slot4 are playable, if bob started with two r2s & two y1s!) therefore i dont think he can know for sure which card(s) he can safely play.

all of this said, bob knows that alice chose to save emily's 5 over clueing him. this must mean that alice is ok with bob discarding slot4 on his turn! therefore the two playables must be in slot2 & slot3, right? well that is usually true, but its not necessary 100% of the time!!! what if bob drew the THIRD y1 during one of his discards, and second y1 is currently on his chop? then yes alice WOULD be ok if bob discarded that, since the third y1 could even be on his slot1 as far as bob knows!
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Sammy McSam
Posts: 87
Joined: 07 April 2021, 20:02

Re: High Trust Deduction or Blunder?

Post by Sammy McSam »

Yes the 3rd 1y possibility is why I didn't address the fact that since there was no save after 2r discard, the chop card can still be playable.

The question of the game was about whether or not we can eliminate the finesse position (slot 1) as 1y/2r. Because if we can eliminate slot 1, then the slot positions of 1y/2r become known and no save is required even with a critical 2r on chop.

So any thoughts on how unused bluff targets can indicate an unplayable finesse position?
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