Excluding Prelude corps

[Lytical]

It's not about MLS, it's about not losing a game at the top. Elo and arena points reflects the mastery of the game from that. We are talking about mastery of the game and an arena season. Contrary to popular belief, including prelude corps when playing across the player pool actually gives you greater mastery and control. I guarantee you that at the end of this season, top elo would be over 850, bc that's what's happening consistently. The difference is so great, it's material.

[skyz0r]

It's not about MLS, it's about not losing a game at the top. Elo and arena points reflects the mastery of the game from that. We are talking about mastery of the game and an arena season. Contrary to popular belief, including prelude corps when playing across the player pool actually gives you greater mastery and control. I guarantee you that at the end of this season, top elo would be over 850, bc that's what's happening consistently. The difference is so great, it's material.

I can agree that there's been bigger runs for the >800 crowd in prelude corps, but that could just point to higher ELO variance which is what preludes allows for.

You can see that Corvus and Bogeyun had <800 MLEs over the season in prelude seasons. They just had outsized runs.

That tab is average ELO (MLE) over an entire season for all top 50 players, not just the top 3-4 outliers that have outsized runs, which is the point that Kulikk, I and other top players who are 800 elo would say the same thing.

There's also analysis that shows there's >50 elo variance for the 200-400 ELO that play against >600 in preludes vs non-preludes. That are your PL, Vitor upsets. That is significant.

Kinda intellectually dishonest to ignore the actual stats when we're telling you how they're measured, but anyway we're just talking past each other and it's fine to have difference in opinions

Prelude corp szn sucks ballz.

[Yahyra]

It's not about MLS, it's about not losing a game at the top. Elo and arena points reflects the mastery of the game from that. We are talking about mastery of the game and an arena season. Contrary to popular belief, including prelude corps when playing across the player pool actually gives you greater mastery and control. I guarantee you that at the end of this season, top elo would be over 850, bc that's what's happening consistently. The difference is so great, it's material.

I can agree that there's been bigger runs for the >800 crowd in prelude corps, but that could just point to higher ELO variance which is what preludes allows for.

You can see that Corvus and Bogeyun had <800 MLEs over the season in prelude seasons. They just had outsized runs.

That tab is average ELO (MLE) over an entire season for all top 50 players, not just the top 3-4 outliers that have outsized runs, which is the point that Kulikk, I and other top players who are 800 elo would say the same thing.

There's also analysis that shows there's >50 elo variance for the 200-400 ELO that play against >600 in preludes vs non-preludes. That are your PL, Vitor upsets. That is significant.

Kinda intellectually dishonest to ignore the actual stats when we're telling you how they're measured, but anyway we're just talking past each other and it's fine to have difference in opinions

Prelude corp szn sucks ballz.

If I had upvotes, this post would get infinite upvotes. Skyx0r, you rulez0r.

[xspuipuke]

Why is high variance a bad thing? High variance means lower skilled players have a chance at winning. Why is giving more people a chance at success bad? If a handful of people want to play it out among themselves, there's tournaments you can set up for yourselves.

Don't take my words too seriously though. I don't like playing competetively so I don't participate in arena. Just wondering.

[Lytical]

Having a higher MLS doesn't necessarily translate to a higher elo nor arena points. The one who lose less and more consistent always gonna enjoy a higher elo and arena points than the ones who win more games. You can't just read the numbers, you have to look beyond that and understand the output. The winning players have end of season elo of 820, it's not close. I listed my reasons in my first post, I am not ignoring your MLS point.

[0rfevre_]

Why is high variance a bad thing? High variance means lower skilled players have a chance at winning. Why is giving more people a chance at success bad? If a handful of people want to play it out among themselves, there's tournaments you can set up for yourselves.

Don't take my words too seriously though. I don't like playing competetively so I don't participate in arena. Just wondering.

It's not a bad thing per se, I just enjoy when it is lower but someone else might enjoy when it is higher which is completely fine. Arena is advertised as the premier bga competitive format, that's why it is natural to think that it should also strive to be as competitive as possible. That being said, Adding prelude corps doesn't change that much so in my ideal world we'd have some seasons with them and some seasons without them.

[0rfevre_]

Having a higher MLS doesn't necessarily translate to a higher elo nor arena points. The one who lose less and more consistent always gonna enjoy a higher elo and arena points than the ones who win more games. You can't just read the numbers, you have to look beyond that and understand the output. The winning players have end of season elo of 820, it's not close. I listed my reasons in my first post, I am not ignoring your MLS point.

Arena points would also be higher if we played against each other at the end of the season, which is what happend the season before that when jesse 2-0 bane. Precisely because arena points were higher and more people were competitive it didn't happen this time.

[Lytical]

That's why I am talking about elo instead of plain arena points. And the truth is that no one hit high arena points before the show down. So it's much lower, even the break aways are much lower. You can see the difference between season 26 and the others clearly. It shows the peaks. It's significant, worth a look.

You know what, I never did an Elo push before, all this Elo talk makes me want to do one. I am going to try and see how far I can push elo here on BGA and see what data says.