Bots in the Azul Arena

[Jellby]

It is not allowed. Another question is how to enforce it (i.e. prove when it happens).

Until now, the solution has been: when bots/AI/solvers are too easily available, remove competitive features (Arena and rankings).

[Priptonite]

I think the whole gaming industry is affected by the current AI development. Chess has the problem of AI assistance in online competitions for many years now and they established counter measures at least in high-stakes tournaments that would not be feasable in the BGA world (like players must film themselves with cameras and some other things). Think of online poker where you even play for real money, AI bots are a big problem there. And the list goes on and on.

At the end of the day, I think you will have to fight AI with AI. In the long term, ideally there is some basic automated AI/cheat detection algorithm deployed on BGA (e.g., checking for typical AI behavior like regular move-making 1 second after it's your turn in turn-based games). Cheat detection software is already mandatory in some video games (e.g., Easy-Anti-Cheat in Rocket League https://www.thespike.gg/rocket-league/b ... ket-league). If at least the obvious bots and "easy botting" could be prevented automatically, that would be a big step forwartd. Some sneaky bot players will always be hard to evaluate but if we can make things at least very inconvenient for potential AI bot cheaters, that would be a big help. In the long run, if we try to fight only with human effort without at least some kind of automated pre-filtering, I don't think that works out.

I think BGA will not re-invent the wheel but has to draw from experience from other gaming sites and hopefully there is something that can be used for BGA.

This is very well said and exactly what we're looking for. We don't expect to just be able to accuse someone and have BGA ban them or something, that would be ridiculous and leads to the false accusation issue brought up before. But even just acknowledgement of the issue and some thoughts from BGA on how to prevent it would be great. As it stands you can't even report a player for suspected botting, the only cheating related report options are about teaming up with another player to fix games. So when we want to report a bot we have to make a bug request, which doesn't really make sense.

[tbhp]

Until now, the solution has been: when bots/AI/solvers are too easily available, remove competitive features (Arena and rankings).

That’s not a solution though, that’s just removing the thing we are trying to make better.

[Priptonite]

An obvious bot: ***

Edited by Moderator: even if it is obvious (or not), please do not name others in any way on these forums.

[tbhp]

What is the point of entering a bot in a tournament? I mean, if the bot wins the tournament, that's a win for the bot, not for you.

It kinda reminds me of the people who cheer for horses. Plus, here the bot isn't even competing against other bots, so that seems even more meaningless.

[RazorOz]

What is the point of entering a bot in a tournament? I mean, if the bot wins the tournament, that's a win for the bot, not for you.

It kinda reminds me of the people who cheer for horses. Plus, here the bot isn't even competing against other bots, so that seems even more meaningless.

Same reason people will cheat at anything, even when there's effectively no prize on the line.

It's worrying times coming for digital gaming because bots are clearly very bad for gaming communities, games like Azul is food and drink for AI, as it's an abstract where a computer can easily calculate the best move, but it's naive to think all games aren't eventually at risk to this sort of stuff. The big losers are the actual players, who just want to play games honestly.

[tbhp]

It reminds me of when I was in school and we had to create a program that would pilot the trajectory of a car in a virtual race. At the end of the semester, all the bots played the race in class and we could see at what position our car would finish (some cars didn't even finish).

It can be a cool thing to do if the goal is to see who is the best at designing some kind of program. But if you aren't even competing against other people's programs, then what is the point.

[Priptonite]

[lefalaf]

This seems proof enough. Try support@boardgamearena.com if you haven't found another channel to report them.

[RazorOz]

The real problem is it doesn't really solve the issue by just retrospectively banning one bot. There has to be some way to proactively detect bots, otherwise many more will keep appearing in the time it takes to get one bot banned. And it's a problem that's only going to get a lot worse if nothing is done proactively.