Making the spirit tokens more balanced

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tbhp
Posts: 1188
Joined: 16 April 2025, 00:35

Re: Making the spirit tokens more balanced

Post by tbhp »

John_Cutter wrote: ↑29 October 2026, 20:56 So you're saying they're not on par? Cat and eagle are two of the worst in the 2 player game for the reasons you stated.
I'd say they are in the middle, not the worst. But if they get lots of reds, this erases the issue they have, as they end up with a very advantageous return of points per tile, so I don't see why they need to be given even more points.

When you have Cat and you have 5 buildings, and maybe a card that puts animals on them, you normally shouldn't be disadvantaged against a Butterfly. I'd say it becomes a pretty balanced matchup in this case.

Stork may be more complicated because it's tricky to create 3 groups of 2 buildings and make everything work on your board, but if you manage to do it, the same principle applies.
Yippiedada wrote: ↑29 October 2026, 10:21 For a 3-4p game, I notice poor butterfly getting blocked from everyone else, so I try not to pick it even when presented the choice.
Yeah, it's tricky because while usually in 1v1 you see yellows are available, decide to pick Butterfly and then try to prevent your opponent from needing too many yellows, in multiplayer you are stuck with only having 19 yellows for everyone, with no realistic way of countering every opponent individually. So if everyone needs a bunch of yellows, it quickly turns into a battle for them and your opponents will be happy to take them whenever it's convenient for them while also preventing you from getting favorable sets with yellows in them.

For this reason Beaver may actually be the strongest spirit in multiplayer, since it exploits a resource that people usually don't particularly rely on. Sure, people may decide to deny you sets with greys in them, but usually they'll have more incentive to take the colors the need. Also, since the bag has 23 greys, which is up there with water as the most abundant resource, it gives you good chances of getting many leftover greys by the end of the game.
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tbhp
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Re: Making the spirit tokens more balanced

Post by tbhp »

Yippiedada wrote: ↑29 October 2026, 10:21 Recently I started playing a game and was surprised to find multiple options, and there was something like “random board excluding board 8 because it is imbalanced”, I thought maybe the same solution could be applied here.
Maybe people find it desirable for some games, but I don't know how popular it would be for Harmonies. I mean, would people really choose to enter a tournament where Bufferfly is banned? I'm sure most everyone would rather win a competition where all the spirits are used. It wouldn't feel very satisfying for the win to come with a caveat "no Butterfly was used because too OP". That's like playing a game but avoiding the final boss haha.
Yippiedada wrote: ↑29 October 2026, 10:21 As you would have noticed, there are 2 spirit cards per landscape element, so we leave the lion spirit card (10 points for 3 or more yellow together) stronger with no competition.
That's already the case every time Lion faces a spirit that is not Butterfly. The argument I'd use is that if Butterfly was absent, people my start complaining about another spirit they find OP instead, like Lion. But it would be blasphemy to play Harmonies without its mascot spirit...
Yippiedada wrote: ↑29 October 2026, 10:21 Personally I like it when my opponent gets the butterfly, I get all fired up trying to block it, all till the whole table is filled with clusters of sunshine tokens that the fire in me dies, and I come to my senses and realize I have a spirit card too. Oh, I actually need some blues … if only my tears could make that river longer… hahaha 😂
Yeah, I don't really see the point if you're never put out of your comfort zone. It's cool when your opponent gets a stronger spirit and you win anyway. You may argue that the spirits should all be equal, but that's not the case since they all have various strengths. Removing Butterfly doesn't change the fact that some spirits are stronger than others, so the unbalance issue wouldn't be solved anyway. It's not like Butterfly is automatically involved in the games where you feel the other spirit was too strong. Generally, it's due to some other match up.

Which gets me to the point: maybe the more relevant imbalance is how the top 4 compares to the rest. I'm pretty sure more than 90% of my losses happen against Butterfly, Lion, Turtle or Beaver. That's the group I would target if I ever wanted to rewrite the game, rather than just Butterfly in particular.
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