Is a good game really a good game?

[Shaq Jenkins]

I agree with this post. I was actually going to post something similar to this.

Saying "gg" at the end of a game has become a stock, emotionless response around here. People say it regardless of the context of the game. It feels insincere. I know some people are arguing that it's polite, but I don't agree. Is it polite to say "gg" to a player that you just easily beat by 100 points? It might have been a good game for you but I highly doubt your opponent feels that way. I like the idea of saying "thanks for playing" or "congratulations," etc. The ending response should fit the actual context of the game.

Players should also stop saying "gg" way before the game has ended. I was playing Seasons recently, and my opponent assumed that he was going to win the game, so he said "gg" as soon as we entered Fall Year 3. Little did he know that I had a plan in place that would help me win the game, and I ended up beating him by around 50 points. It's arrogant and dismissive to say "gg" before the game is actually over. At least let the other players have their final turns before saying it.

The culture of BGA is really interesting. Sadly, it's one of the most anti-social gaming sites I've played on. There's countless times when I've said "hi" to my opponent at the beginning of the game and the person didn't reply. There's also very little chatting that occurs during the game. It sometimes feels as if I'm playing against robots and not actual human beings. Yes, this is an online site, but remember that there's a person on the other end of the computer. This might also have to do with the language barrier, as people speak multiple different languages on this site, but "hi" is a universal greeting that anyone can understand. At the same time, I've had English speaking players refuse to return my greetings as well...

saying gg on your final turn makes more sense for turn.based games since the chat disappears as soon as the game ends. that isn't a concern for realtime games. saying gg is not arrogant. arrogant is quitting the game on the next to last turn because your opponent says gg and that clues you in to the fact that you don't have many turns left to play.

some people find in.game chat distracting .. others blather on and on. i am in either camp depending on the game and how much thinking is required. that said, if you have a game of saboteur where no one chats .. the sabs win.

gg may be 'stock' now .. but if everyone said 'thanks for playing' ... that would become stock as well. just use the BGA translate feature to turn 'gg' into 'thanks for playing' and your issue is resolved.

My point is that what you say at the end of the game should be based on the CONTEXT of the game. Sometimes, it's appropriate to say "gg" if the game was actually good. Sometimes, it's better to say "thanks for playing," "congratulations," or another appropriate closing. These do not become stock responses if people use them based on how the game actually went.

This relates back to my whole point about the anti-social nature of this site - players think that saying "gg" despite the context of the game is being social when it's really not. It's a form of being "social" that doesn't require much effort or thought.

I see your point that socializing among players depends on the game. But then again, I play Colt Express often, which is a fun, social game where a lot of crazy, unpredictable things happen, and the players are usually silent. I've tried to make a joke about a move I made or something like that and most players don't respond. I don't even bother anymore.

In the example I used, the player was being dismissive and arrogant when he said "gg" way before the game actually ended. We were playing live, so the turn-based excuse doesn't apply here. Again, I think closing remarks should happen when the game is completely finished, not when one player assumes they've won the game. It's especially arrogant to assume you've won a game of Season at the beginning of Fall Year 3 when you have no clue what cards your opponent has. We still had 2 turns left when he said it.

[Fysh99]

My point is that what you say at the end of the game should be based on the CONTEXT of the game. Sometimes, it's appropriate to say "gg" if the game was actually good. Sometimes, it's better to say "thanks for playing," "congratulations," or another appropriate closing. These do not become stock responses if people use them based on how the game actually went.

This relates back to my whole point about the anti-social nature of this site - players think that saying "gg" despite the context of the game is being social when it's really not. It's a form of being "social" that doesn't require much effort or thought.

I see your point that socializing among players depends on the game. But then again, I play Colt Express often, which is a fun, social game where a lot of crazy, unpredictable things happen, and the players are usually silent. I've tried to make a joke about a move I made or something like that and most players don't respond. I don't even bother anymore.

In the example I used, the player was being dismissive and arrogant when he said "gg" way before the game actually ended. We were playing live, so the turn-based excuse doesn't apply here. Again, I think closing remarks should happen when the game is completely finished, not when one player assumes they've won the game. It's especially arrogant to assume you've won a game of Season at the beginning of Fall Year 3 when you have no clue what cards your opponent has. We still had 2 turns left when he said it.

You are taking everything much too literally. All conversation is dominated by social rituals, including greeting people and saying goodbye, etc. The same phrases are used over and over, that's just the way human society does things.

For many people, "gg" has become the convention for acknowledging that your game is over, and you are now both going your separate ways. It can just signify that this moment of social interaction has ended, and is a gentle nod of thanks for the game. All that is implied, and for many people, saying "gg" feels a lot better than simply closing the game down without saying anything.

"gg" can mean lots of different things. It can mean "good game.", or it can mean "thanks, I enjoyed that.", or it can mean "I didn't enjoy that because I played badly, but you played well, so thanks anyway.", but generally it is meant as a demonstration of good mannered respect for your opponent.

If you want to take offence from people saying "gg", then that is your choice. You may as well take offence from people asking "How are you?" as the second or third line of the greeting ritual. You may as well be offended by the full stop that comes at the end of most sentences...

I once had someone feel insulted because I said "Good luck" at the beginning of our game. Apparently because I was much higher rated, they thought I was implying that they would need a lot of luck to beat me

Most people are driven by a desire NOT to cause any offence. People stick to tried and tested conventions because they are generally a safe way to be polite.

[mettadas]

Is it polite to say "gg" to a player that you just easily beat by 100 points? It might have been a good game for you but I highly doubt your opponent feels that way. I like the idea of saying "thanks for playing" or "congratulations," etc.

I just lost a game of Hive today, in which I was losing almost from the very beginning, and continuously until the end. It was for me a gg, because I'm very interested to understand how that happened. Don't assume that a loser did not enjoy the game.

In fact I might have been concerned about not having provided an interesting challenge to my opponent. I was pleased to hear it was not so, and that he also had a gg.

Players should also stop saying "gg" way before the game has ended. I was playing Seasons recently, and my opponent assumed that he was going to win the game, so he said "gg" as soon as we entered Fall Year 3. Little did he know that I had a plan in place that would help me win the game, and I ended up beating him by around 50 points.

I have expressed my appreciation for a gg in the middle when it was not clear who would win. It simply meant I was enjoying it.

It's arrogant and dismissive to say "gg" before the game is actually over.

Perhaps sometimes it is. But certainly sometimes it is not. A little benefit of the doubt makes a nice seasoning for any sauce.

Frank.

[Hervor]

You are taking everything much too literally. All conversation is dominated by social rituals, including greeting people and saying goodbye, etc. The same phrases are used over and over, that's just the way human society does things.

For many people, "gg" has become the convention for acknowledging that your game is over, and you are now both going your separate ways. It can just signify that this moment of social interaction has ended, and is a gentle nod of thanks for the game. All that is implied, and for many people, saying "gg" feels a lot better than simply closing the game down without saying anything.

"gg" can mean lots of different things. It can mean "good game.", or it can mean "thanks, I enjoyed that.", or it can mean "I didn't enjoy that because I played badly, but you played well, so thanks anyway.", but generally it is meant as a demonstration of good mannered respect for your opponent.

If you want to take offence from people saying "gg", then that is your choice. You may as well take offence from people asking "How are you?" as the second or third line of the greeting ritual. You may as well be offended by the full stop that comes at the end of most sentences...

I once had someone feel insulted because I said "Good luck" at the beginning of our game. Apparently because I was much higher rated, they thought I was implying that they would need a lot of luck to beat me

Most people are driven by a desire NOT to cause any offence. People stick to tried and tested conventions because they are generally a safe way to be polite.

I cannot agree more. In real live there are these rituals as well. Do you also take offence when someone on the street says "Good morning" to you, because maybe you are having a shitty morning or it is raining so you think that objectively it isn't a good morning? I hope not.

[Shaq Jenkins]

My point is that what you say at the end of the game should be based on the CONTEXT of the game. Sometimes, it's appropriate to say "gg" if the game was actually good. Sometimes, it's better to say "thanks for playing," "congratulations," or another appropriate closing. These do not become stock responses if people use them based on how the game actually went.

This relates back to my whole point about the anti-social nature of this site - players think that saying "gg" despite the context of the game is being social when it's really not. It's a form of being "social" that doesn't require much effort or thought.

I see your point that socializing among players depends on the game. But then again, I play Colt Express often, which is a fun, social game where a lot of crazy, unpredictable things happen, and the players are usually silent. I've tried to make a joke about a move I made or something like that and most players don't respond. I don't even bother anymore.

In the example I used, the player was being dismissive and arrogant when he said "gg" way before the game actually ended. We were playing live, so the turn-based excuse doesn't apply here. Again, I think closing remarks should happen when the game is completely finished, not when one player assumes they've won the game. It's especially arrogant to assume you've won a game of Season at the beginning of Fall Year 3 when you have no clue what cards your opponent has. We still had 2 turns left when he said it.

You are taking everything much too literally. All conversation is dominated by social rituals, including greeting people and saying goodbye, etc. The same phrases are used over and over, that's just the way human society does things.

For many people, "gg" has become the convention for acknowledging that your game is over, and you are now both going your separate ways. It can just signify that this moment of social interaction has ended, and is a gentle nod of thanks for the game. All that is implied, and for many people, saying "gg" feels a lot better than simply closing the game down without saying anything.

"gg" can mean lots of different things. It can mean "good game.", or it can mean "thanks, I enjoyed that.", or it can mean "I didn't enjoy that because I played badly, but you played well, so thanks anyway.", but generally it is meant as a demonstration of good mannered respect for your opponent.

If you want to take offence from people saying "gg", then that is your choice. You may as well take offence from people asking "How are you?" as the second or third line of the greeting ritual. You may as well be offended by the full stop that comes at the end of most sentences...

I once had someone feel insulted because I said "Good luck" at the beginning of our game. Apparently because I was much higher rated, they thought I was implying that they would need a lot of luck to beat me

Most people are driven by a desire NOT to cause any offence. People stick to tried and tested conventions because they are generally a safe way to be polite.

Okay, now you're putting words into my mouth. Please point out where I said that I'm offended by people saying "gg"? I mentioned the one time where I thought it was inappropriate because of the timing the player said it. When someone says "gg," I respond to them, even though I think it's a lazy response that doesn't always fit the context of the game.

I love how me trying to have a civilized conversation about the social conventions of this site means that I'm somehow offended by everything and get mad when people say "good morning" to me offline. The generalizations you and Hervor are making about me are really weird and unfounded.

I've already said my opinion about this topic, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Fysh99]

Okay, now you're putting words into my mouth. Please point out where I said that I'm offended by people saying "gg"? I mentioned the one time where I thought it was inappropriate because of the timing the player said it. When someone says "gg," I respond to them, even though I think it's a lazy response that doesn't always fit the context of the game.

I love how me trying to have a civilized conversation about the social conventions of this site means that I'm somehow offended by everything and get mad when people say "good morning" to me offline. The generalizations you and Hervor are making about me are really weird and unfounded.

I've already said my opinion about this topic, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Yes, it was an exaggeration to suggest that you were offended, but my point was that you can choose how you see these things.

In your example about the person saying "gg" two turns before the end of your Seasons game, you thought it was arrogance that he had already thought he had won. Maybe it was arrogance, or maybe he was just trying to be polite as the game was coming to a close - without talking to him further, it is impossible to know.

Your response to this event is to state:

Players should also stop saying "gg" way before the game has ended.

If it had been me, and I had a winning trick up my sleeve, and I felt that the person was arrogantly assuming the win, then I probably would have come back to them with some cheeky comment maybe involving chickens, eggs and hatching... perhaps that would have been a spark that got some banter or conversation going. It's those kind of happy little events, that can turn a stranger into a friend.

[veme]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I've been saying this since I was like 5 years old, when they used to line us up after little league games to shake hands and say it to the other team. It is polite, and always true, unless you are playing a game you just don't like (and why would you do that?).

It should be understandable as a social convention even if you think it is silly. For instance, if someone says to you "Can you pass the salt?", do you just say "Yes" and then not do anything, as that is the literal interpretation of their words? No - you understand the implicated request for a favor, and act as such; much like how you should understand "gg" as "thanks for the game, that was fun, you are a nice player" not literally "out of all the games I have ever participated in, the quality of play in this one was such that I would precisely classify it as 'good'". I also love the idea that saying "thanks for the game" is somehow less robotic or dismissive. To my ears that sounds much more like someone who won might really be sarcastically saying "thanks for giving me that one, and your elo, chump". But I would never assume that, of course, and accept "thanks for the game" comments even if I think someone might be gloating - because I cannot read their mind, and therefore must give them the benefit of the doubt.

If you are in any way bothered by a simple 'gg', I think you must be making assumptions about the mental state of your opponent which are probably unwarranted, and definitely not justified. I say it, and mean it, after every game as all games are at least learning experiences; even if I crush someone or am crushed, my personal philosophy allows me to see all games as good. So, your idea of what is 'good' is not everyone's idea of good. I also say it before everyone has taken their last turn sometimes, whether I think I have won, I think someone else has won, or I have no idea who has won - that way I can go to the bathroom sooner. Not sure why that should offend anyone who isn't jumping to conclusions about what motivates my behavior.

[gdBlaze]

I just type gg as a ritual for the end of a game. I feel like I'm being rude if I weren't to acknowledge the game in some way. I think I will start using tg.

[nandblock]

I try to avoid saying "gg" if I really crushed an opponent--it looks insincere and (if it's not the final move) premature--but if I lose I do always say it, and try to make sure I do it before the last move in a turn-based game so they actually see it.

I do like chat but, realistically, I play a lot of games and can't maintain 20 simultaneous conversations. But it's nice when it happens. Also, I don't want to look like I'm trying to distract the other player--kibitzing, etc. -- My experience on MSN playing backgammon many years ago--where players regularly moaned about dice rolls or accused me of somehow cheating--makes me appreciate a silent opponent

[Liallan]

If you are in any way bothered by a simple 'gg', I think you must be making assumptions about the mental state of your opponent which are probably unwarranted, and definitely not justified. I say it, and mean it, after every game as all games are at least learning experiences; even if I crush someone or am crushed, my personal philosophy allows me to see all games as good. So, your idea of what is 'good' is not everyone's idea of good. I also say it before everyone has taken their last turn sometimes, whether I think I have won, I think someone else has won, or I have no idea who has won - that way I can go to the bathroom sooner. Not sure why that should offend anyone who isn't jumping to conclusions about what motivates my behavior.

I said earlier I thought people were taking it too literally, and I'm not sure where the idea came from that if the person who says it is winning, they are somehow gloating or being condescending or whatever. I like your attitude.

I'll admit that I say it when I don't mean it, and by that I mean maybe it wasn't such a fun game. But I'm not meaning it literally like "this game was good." It doesn't matter if it turned out not being so fun. I chose to play the game, that was my doing, and unless it's a high luck game, I'm responsible for how I played as well. If I am the one who's going to win, my meaning really isn't much different. I'm saying "you all played a good game." If someone sucked, maybe it was good for them. If I think someone did as well as they could, why do we consider they didn't do good? If a kid flunks a test even though they tried, do we not acknowledge their attempt? Or just ignore them because they flunked? I'm just acknowledging their good attempt at the game. And maybe they weren't that far behind.

I really hope everyone isn't making assumptions about what my "gg" means and finding it upsetting.

Now, if I totally crush someone and their game was terrible, I might adjust what I say a bit, otherwise it could sound patronizing. Totally crushing someone is a bit different than just winning. And of course, if I didn't win, I'm also congratulating them, or I might actually say "Congrats."

I also do say something before the game is over cause I don't trust that people will see it after it's over. So I try to squeeze stuff in within a few turns of the end. That's what I see others do. And I haven't once felt someone else was being condescending towards me if they're winning.