Red thumb evolution (step 1)

[demiurgsage]

Not sure it's a good idea.
For 2p it's ok.
But in games with many players, especially Hanabi, Saboteur, it causes problems.

I think that instead of making red thumbs more powerfull maybe a good idea to make more powerfull green thumbs. I think that green thumbs should be for good people with whom we want to play, for others we need a yellow thumb that means "OK player". Now we give green thumbs to all players who didn't disappointed us too much. I'm not sure we use thumbs in the right way.

Another idea is to make thumbs connected with specific game. For the case you just don't want to see a player in some games.

[Liallan]

I don't like this idea either. Most of my reasons have already been stated here and there, but mostly...

Giving someone a red thumb is not a guarantee that I never want to play with them again, but it also might be that I don't care to take the red thumb back. I also believe in second chances. I'm aware I can take back that red thumb if I like, but I'm not going to know who all I gave one to, and perhaps it's two years later and things have changed. (I've only ever given a very few red thumbs and I couldn't possible say who they were.)

The real point is the red thumb having the control. I'm not much fond of things that have too much control and keep me from making my own decisions. And the red thumb really ought to be to tell the community that there was a problem with this player. If I just have personal reasons I don't want to play with someone again (too slow or whatever), that's why I make notes. A red thumb should be for the community. And it really shouldn't matter that it came from me personally, only the percent of red thumbs someone gets over time. This is why the table can be restricted, and it's based on the overall behavior of that player, not just one game with me.

I agree it causes problems in multi-player games. If I don't care to play with Person A again, but Person B is the table admin, they have a right to allow Person A to play and not be restricted because of me.

Seems like it makes more sense to allow us to just "blacklist" a player on our own, and only have that work if we are the table admin.

(P.S. Also a little difficult to judge when we don't know what these other changes are that are coming.)

[sourisdudesert]

Thanks for your messages.

Well, the fault is ours : we didn't make clear wether the thumbs were for the community or for personal "blacklist". So some players are using it to report "bad" players to the community, and some are giving red thumb just because someone doesn't say "hi". To solve this, we have to make a choice, and as there are many many issues linked to "public shaming through red thumb", we choose to make green/red thumb something personal. All further evolutions will go in this direction.

[georgeabitbol]

To me this is a bit of a too wide scope of exclusion: why not just exclude the red thumbs you gave to someone from the table you create?
Because for 1 person giving you a red thumb, you then can't join tables with maybe 5/6 people who gave you a green thumb?
This can lead to a lot of abuses I think, as red thumb is just a personal and subjective choice, not an objective one.

[Willie333b]

How about if faced in tournament matches?

[demiurgsage]

How about if faced in tournament matches?

Tournament is an exception. Was written above.

[pinkyandthebrain]

A red thumb tells the world: "don't play with him/her!". Many people restrict their tables to players having very few red thumbs.
So why would you like to give such a warning and prevent a player from joining other tables if you are, yourself, ready to give them a second chance?

In the same way a petulant teenager can mature into a very respectful adult is the reason why I believe you should be prepared to give second chances.
Maybe you gave someone a red thumb for very valid reasons two years ago and now that player, having accumulated red thumbs and negative feedback in their BGA life has learnt that they must change and play in a more mature fashion. Not everyone will take on board that they are being issued with a lot of red thumbs and be introspective about their style of play, but for those who have done it shows that the system can alert at least a few bad players that it is them that are at fault. It's not perfect, but I think the developers are aiming towards achieving the best possible compromise for a system that can accommodate the needs raised by all types of games offered on BGA.

[robnotto]

I generally like this.

I would say most of the Red Thumbs come about early when people are online, while they are learning what is acceptable or not. I believe if you enforce this, you will have people that might have learned how to be a good online citizen a second chance. I know on multiple times, I have given a person a red thumb and then changed it later, or had a good experience with them later.

With the policy you defined, that is not an option.

I would rather have a opt in, where you can say "I do not want to play with this player again" and use "Red Thumbs" for their online reputation.
rob

[oenxt]

O.k., so this is going to be a dumb question on my part, but how exactly do you change a red or green thumb after you have given it? Several people have mentioned this, but how does that work?

[Shaq Jenkins]

A red thumb tells the world: "don't play with him/her!". Many people restrict their tables to players having very few red thumbs.
So why would you like to give such a warning and prevent a player from joining other tables if you are, yourself, ready to give them a second chance?

Stop distributing red thumbs for pointless reasons. Keep them for people you really do not want to meet again.
For players who play too well (and beat you, which you cannot stand) or too badly (and make you lose in cooperation games, which you cannot stand either), or may have encountered connection losses, just write a personal comment if you are ready to give them a second chance.

Now, if you already have given more red thumbs than you should have, and see one of your victims trying to join one of your tables, remember that you can remove their red thumb anytime...

Agreed. I'm starting to wonder if the people complaining are giving red thumbs out too freely and that's why they're terrified by this new change...

I only give red thumbs to people who I truly do not want to play with again, so I'm thrilled that they can't join my tables anymore. The point that players are making about second chances is very valid, but the last time I gave a red thumbed player a second chance, he was rude and started cursing at me, which reminded me why I blacklisted him in the first place.

I like this change - it'll stop players from giving out red thumbs for petty reasons. If someone is a troll, they'll accumulate enough red thumbs and complaints that they'll probably be banned from the site/can't join any tables.

I actually found out that someone who I play Tokaido with regularly, and who I had given a green thumb to, red thumbed me. Since all of our interactions have been cordial, I was confused as to why they blacklisted me. I was shocked by this, but I think it is an example of people being willy nilly with red thumbs, which needs to stop.