Oh Hell! and Belote

[demiurgsage]

I found there is a distinct disadvantage to the player whose move is last in the round when you get only 1 card. Almost always one of previous players make a bid 1 and others make a bid 0 and rules oblige you to bid 1 with random hand. So you lose 10 points to every player in the game.

[MadManMoon]

The scoring system of Oh Hell! is really bad... Please change it or at least add another scoring system, just like demiurgsage and Oso already said.

With this system, you give a prize to players who play bad their bills but simply have lots of high cards... It's simply awful.


I hope you will change the rules soon!

[Elaine Lectar]

Please change scoring system of Oh Hell!

Add penalties for those who do not reach the bet!

Thank you

[marcgenesis]

Hi,

First of all, the scoring system isn't bad at all in Oh Hell!. It means that if you are not able to do you bid (let's say you bid 0 and you score one of the earlier trick), there is an incentive to collect as many as possible to screw the other players over. It also makes for a more laid back, positive experience.

Second, I will look into implementing other scoring systems, that may make the game a bit more competitive. Although not all player enjoy games where there is a clear winner and the others are just fighting for second place in the low ranks.

I will also look at implementing a version with fewer hands, like going either 6 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 or 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. Maybe even both depending on how involved it is.

[marcgenesis]

Here are the different variants implemented on BGA as of now:

Game style:

Long: As described above
Long - Inverted: Instead of going 10 ... 1 ... 10 (or the equivalent according to the number of players), the hands go 1 ... 10 ... 1
Short - Up and Down: Hands always go 6 ... 1 ... 6
Short - Up: Hands always go 1 ... 10
Short - Down: Hands always go 10 ... 1

Scoring style:

Positive: As described above
Neutral: 10 points + number of tricks for a successful bid. No points for a lost bid.
Negative: 10 points + number of tricks for a successful bid. -10 points per tricks under or over on a lost bid.

[Hairry]

Good job marcgenesis, I really like Oh Hell!
Is there a chance you could implement Wizard as well?

[marcgenesis]

Good job marcgenesis, I really like Oh Hell!
Is there a chance you could implement Wizard as well?

Wizard (as far as I remember how I was playing it) is pretty much the Short - Up game variant and Negative scoring variant of Oh Hell. I personally don't have any interest in developing Wizard since it's too similar to Oh Hell! for my taste. If another dev sees your request and BGA are able to get the rights, maybe they will develop it.

[MadManMoon]

Here are the different variants implemented on BGA as of now:

Game style:

Long: As described above
Long - Inverted: Instead of going 10 ... 1 ... 10 (or the equivalent according to the number of players), the hands go 1 ... 10 ... 1
Short - Up and Down: Hands always go 6 ... 1 ... 6
Short - Up: Hands always go 1 ... 10
Short - Down: Hands always go 10 ... 1

Scoring style:

Positive: As described above
Neutral: 10 points + number of tricks for a successful bid. No points for a lost bid.
Negative: 10 points + number of tricks for a successful bid. -10 points per tricks under or over on a lost bid.

Thank you very much!

[marcgenesis]

Thank you very much!

Enjoy!

[demiurgsage]

marcgenesis, thank you for implementing new options and fixing bugs. It looks like that short variants of "Oh Hell" are quite popular. But with scoring style there are issues. It's not the system I and Oso suggested. We suggested to penalize player if he takes less than he bid. But Negative system penalizes player even if he takes more tricks than he bid. Also penalties with Negative style are to big. Second issue is all 3 systems don't encourage people to make big bids. And the 3rd is that all 3 system don't fair for the last player especially in the round with only 1 card.
So my new suggestion:
1. If a player takes exact number of tricks he bid, he score 10 + 3x independent of the scoring style.
2. Change penalties for negative system to -3 per trick player missed.
3. Add new system that I and Oso described. You can name it classic or whatever you want. In this system player will get penalty -3 per trick if he takes less than he bid, player will score 10+3x if he takes exact number he bid, and player will score x if he takes more than he bid.
4. Make restriction for last player optional and turn off by default. In my opinion if there would be restriction that forbid 1st player bid 0, it would be far more fair than curren restriction.

Changing to 10+3x for exact bids is directed to encourage players bid more if their hands allow several variants of the bid. Also it decreases probability of a tie in case of Negative or Neutral scoring style.