Inventors - something frustrating.

[elvmon8]

Hello,
Inventors is a fun game, but...
I just want to raise something that I think could ameliorate the game (and I'm not the only one to make such a remark):

When someone is alone to win a card, I think he could get the right to get 2 bonus ( if not all the card).
This would enhance the fact to bet on all cards and will extend the power of the 2 cubes.

You can eventualy put this as "option" in game creation... (standard rule, win 2 bonus for a card won alone , win all bonus for a card won alone)..
then you will have a return of the option players prefer.

Also the equillibrium of the 4 inventor cards is not evident ... it seems to be easier to manage Einstein team? (but I'm not currently sure of that, just a feeling)... but maybe could it be good to allow a draft of 3vp cards, 6 vp cards and 9 vp cards? (also as option)... BGA is a good mean to test that...

[demiurgsage]

Easiest team to win is blue I suppose. 2-1-1-2 is easy to get, easy to promote early and very useful. Red team is very hard to win. You need to get 3 "3" to promote your 9 and 6. It's not easy. Very often opponents have a possibility to prevent you from getting tokens to promote your scientists.

[elvmon8]

yes... you're right, I discover this in lasts games...
by the way, this is why I think a draft or a random could be better (as option)...
And what do you think about the card won alone?

[demiurgsage]

And what do you think about the card won alone?

I think that the idea of the game that you should do an invention cooperative. You need to think who and why help you. If you try to invent a card that is useful only for you this is your problem. And anyway the fact that others players get nothing when you invent a card by yourself is already a bonus, isn't it?

[Shaq Jenkins]

And what do you think about the card won alone?

I think that the idea of the game that you should do an invention cooperative. You need to think who and why help you. If you try to invent a card that is useful only for you this is your problem. And anyway the fact that others players get nothing when you invent a card by yourself is already a bonus, isn't it?

I agree with this. Players will start finishing inventions independently instead of cooperating with other players. This was clearly designed as a cooperative game. The interactive aspect of the game also seems important - it will probably be very fun to play this in person.

I noticed that the teams are imbalanced as well. Team Blue and Team Red are the easiest to manage since it's not difficult to upgrade their 9 and 6 point inventors. Team Green is the hardest for me. I struggle with them and Hypatia is such a pain to upgrade.

Like Puerto Rico, I'm noticing that this is a game that people should play with players of similar rank. I notice that lower level players do not play defensively - they choose rewards based on what might suit them instead of preventing players from upgrading or gaining points. I lost a game by 1 point yesterday because a player chose a questionable reward that didn't benefit them, which helped the first place player win. It's frustrating because I keep losing close games, which is why my record sucks.

[Romain672]

For me color order : yellow>purple>blue>>>red>green.
But I'm not sure about yellow (but stay before red and green).

Green have a difficult 9 and a weak synergie between 6 and 9.
I know many player who found the color red really bad. You need many 2/3 and no 4.
Blue seems good at the start, but they have a weak age 1 because of the two inventor who start 0/0/2/0 and 0/0/0/2. And they need many 2.
With purple, it's more easy to finish 6 and 9, but more hard to finish 9 alone.
-
And yes, it isn't a cooperative game at all for me. Sometimes you take an invention and except someone else to finish it but you can't be sure of his choice.
-
I'm agree about the idea of the topic it would open other strategy in the game, and it stay hard to manage to finish one invention alone.

[demiurgsage]

Hypata is the worst "9". It's not only hardest card to upgrade (maybe except Einstein) but also one of useless "9" to upgrade as you can't be sure that you'll see enough inventions that need math.

[braven]

All of the inventors have pros and cons. Though I like some better than others, I don't think the difference is that large as long as you adjust your play-style accordingly. Also, like Romain672 explained, some have more subtle disadvantages, like the fact that inventors that start with only a single skill are less flexible, particularly in the first age.

Some of the inventor sets may seem terrible at first, like red having the most difficult to upgrade 9-point inventor. However, it also has the easiest 6 and 3 point inventors of all the sets. You can get a 3 and 6 inventor completed with only a single specific tile (one 3 tile). Instead of trying to go for maximum inventor points with red, often a better strategy is to focus on using your inventors very efficiently. Because of the flexibility red provides, you can often adjust your priorities in such a way as to minimize inventor refreshing and over-investing on any single card (second or third pick is fine). This allows you to claim more cards than your opponents and can easily counterbalance the slightly lower points you receive from inventor progress. I have won many a game with just a 3-VP and a 6-VP inventor. I think many players who hate red are also players who feel like they always need to complete their 9-point inventor to be competitive, but you can make just as many or more points by prioritizing other things.

For me, my order of preference between the sets, from favorite to least favorite, are: Blue > Red > Purple >> Green > Yellow

Though, that tends to change from day to day

[demiurgsage]

You are right that the best strategy for red is to try use its flexibility and complete "9" only when the situation is suitable to do so.
However I don't see any compensation for green for its terrible inventors. I think blue have advantage about 3 points ahead of green.
Also starting position means quite a lot. You lose at start of a game about 0.5 points per position from starting player. In 4p game you have almost no chances to win as green in 4th position playing against 1700+ opponents.

[braven]

True, green is basically a strictly worse version of red. I usually play green similiar to red; ignore the 9-pointer if the tiles are not generous in the first age. Green's one advantage is the easy to complete 3-pointer, but red also has that and a better 6 pointer. I suppose it could be argued that the 9-pointer is easier than Red's, because it needs a 4 instead of a second 3 and 3s tend to be in higher demand than 4 (though I am not sure if there are less 4s compensating for this and also the current meta game seems to have a lot of players favoring 9-pointers over other inventors, increasing demand for 4s).

I wish there was some kind of compensation for players with worse turn orders. Not only can you possibly get less total turns, but if the ACT 1 tile options are poor, you can be prevented from getting good tiles (2s and 3s) early on, which often determine the course of the game (start behind, stay behind).

Interesting, the stats seem to confirm that blue wins the most often, followed by purple and red, and green and yellow have the lowest win rate.