Private red thumb for anyone, not just recently played opponents.

[Jest Phulin]

While it is possible to write a private note about any player, private red thumbs are not. Would it be possible to do so?

The reason to do this is that red thumbs ensure that a player that is disliked does not join the table. In turn-based games, when commitment to play has to be given before knowledge of all opponents, this is important. It is disheartening to play your first move at a table, and see that someone you dislike is there.


First, this assumes that private red thumbs do not influence Karma. If this is incorrect, many of the following reasons are null and void.

Private notes can be both positive and negative, so the mere presence of a note does not mean that the player is disliked. One cannot filter merely on the presence of a private note.

If I recall correctly, red thumbs can only be given if you have completed a game against someone recently. This means that if someone quits a game, and all other players decide to abandon the game collectively, you can't give a red thumb to the quitter because you haven't actually completed a game with them. While an argument could be made that this is behavior that deserves a public red thumb, being able to give a private red thumb would help.

People display behavior in places other than games. Some people have offended me on these forums, and I am sure I have offended others. Table administrators will expel people with no explanation. People will join a table set up for slow speed, then leave impatiently if nobody else joins in 30 seconds. Other people have different behaviors that are unpleasant. In all of these cases, it would be nice to not be partnered with them ever, not even the one time required to give them a red thumb.

Friends/acquaintances could share information about a player easily. Imagine a situation where someone makes disparaging remarks about a group in the chat. While this behavior can be reported and the player can be penalized, this takes time. Hearing from a trusted source not to play with someone, and being able to do something about it privately would be quicker.

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Edit:
Beginner's protection. While beginner's protection is needed against some forms of poor gaming behavior (making moves that nobody could predict, therefore throwing the game into chaos, etc.), there are some forms of behavior that should be able to be blacklisted immediately -- crass comments in chat, leaving the table prematurely, etc.

[demiurgsage]

Agree. I don't understand why you should play with someone to never play with him again.
Also I think that karma should be removed or modified cause it doesn't differ good people from bad. It only shows who completes recent games without quits. Red/green thumbs ratio is much more informative.

[sourisdudesert]

First, this assumes that private red thumbs do not influence Karma. If this is incorrect, many of the following reasons are null and void.

Players with >10% red thumb / >20% red thumb has a drastic Karma limitation. So basically if you se up a Karma limit for your game you avoid them automatically.

[Jest Phulin]

So there is no Karma distinction between a private red thumb and a public one? Then why is there an option given for that?

[Liallan]

Private notes can be both positive and negative, so the mere presence of a note does not mean that the player is disliked. One cannot filter merely on the presence of a private note.

Oh I would hope not. I leave a note for everyone I play with, which usually is just a short note so I know I've played with them before without problem.

A lot of the rest of what you said just sounds like you want a basic blacklist feature. The private red thumb can work for that, but there are times we want to do that for someone we haven't completed a game with. A blacklist feature would take care of that. Having these "private" red thumbs combined with not being allowed to leave them if you didn't complete a game together isn't a good mix.

Friends/acquaintances could share information about a player easily. Imagine a situation where someone makes disparaging remarks about a group in the chat. While this behavior can be reported and the player can be penalized, this takes time. Hearing from a trusted source not to play with someone, and being able to do something about it privately would be quicker.

Now that one makes me a bit nervous as I can see this being abused. While maybe your friends on here really are friends, you might play with them a lot or know them well, the word "friend" has come to be a little meaningless, especially online. I only friend people on here that I at least somewhat know, usually from another site. But I could see someone friending everyone they play with and then use that as a way to spread personal opinions that are perhaps unfair, etc. Did I just use the word "friend" as a verb? I need to shoot myself.

And I do think there's a Karma distinction between private and public red thumbs. I'm pretty sure sourisdudesert said the private ones don't have any affect, and I think perhaps that they even look at the public ones. I could be remembering that wrong, but I'm fairly sure private ones aren't affecting Karma.

[sourisdudesert]

but I'm fairly sure private ones aren't affecting Karma.

You are right.

This way we satisfy those of you who were requesting a "player personal blacklist just for me", and those who were requesting something more "socially based". And above all we make sure that we haven't half of the community that is using it one way and the rest the other way, like it was the case before.

[Jest Phulin]

First, this assumes that private red thumbs do not influence Karma. If this is incorrect, many of the following reasons are null and void.

Players with >10% red thumb / >20% red thumb has a drastic Karma limitation. So basically if you se up a Karma limit for your game you avoid them automatically.

but I'm fairly sure private ones aren't affecting Karma.

You are right.

Uh, which is it? Do private thumbs not affect Karma, or do private thumbs count to the 10/20% red thumb limit?

[Ankeszu]

Umm, I am lost about the red thumbs. I thought there is one red thumb. But if it is really one thumb, what would mean the distinction public/private thumbs?

Does that mean that to give a player 'public red thumb' (to tell other people it's not the person worth playing with) I have to click sth else? I haven't noticed any update nor the way how to do that (though luckily didn't need it for long time, but what with previously given red thumbs?).

But if they are on the same click, it is affecting Karma [if there is enough red thumbs]. Unless you meant that single red thumb does not affect.

Edit. Same thoughts as Jest Phulin above.

[sourisdudesert]

Hi

We didn't explain the full mechanism because this is pure internal stuff. From your point of view, you should consider that there is one kind of red thumb, and that this add a player to your personal blacklist.

Now, if you want to look behind the scene : when you give a red thumb, BGA asks you explicitely if this is just a personal feeling about this player or if you want to warn the whole community about this player. Obviously, we do not take into account the first category for Karma penalties.

So yes, the system "looks" simple but the mechanism has been designed to address all your different need on this domain

[Ankeszu]

Thanks for clarification!