Obvious cheating in Noir: Inspector VS Killer

[senatorhung]

Its not impossible to win as Inspector. You guys just need to develop strategies and you'll be fine

if you are playing against an experienced killer .. the only way to win as an inspector is by random luck either on the inspector's first move or random luck immediately after a killer's jump. you play enough games .. the win rate of the inspector drops down to under 5%.

[Shaq Jenkins]

Its not impossible to win as Inspector. You guys just need to develop strategies and you'll be fine

if you are playing against an experienced killer .. the only way to win as an inspector is by random luck either on the inspector's first move or random luck immediately after a killer's jump. you play enough games .. the win rate of the inspector drops down to under 5%.

Agreed - a mod posted stats in another thread showing that when people ranked good and above play each other, the killer wins around 90% of the time. That's enough proof to demonstrate that it's basically impossible to win as the inspector.

[Deo]

That's enough proof to demonstrate that it's basically impossible to win as the inspector.

It's not impossible to win as Inspector and it's certainly not 10% chance. AFAIK it was a bit higher than 20%, which is still very low, but doable. Playing as Inspector is an uphill battle, you have to play carefully and even then you get not so big chances, but it is not impossible and can still be fun. That's why I suggest adding 2-round game mode - it's perfectly fair and with thought out tiebreaker(s) may even fix gameplay a bit.

[Shaq Jenkins]

That's enough proof to demonstrate that it's basically impossible to win as the inspector.

It's not impossible to win as Inspector and it's certainly not 10% chance. AFAIK it was a bit higher than 20%, which is still very low, but doable. Playing as Inspector is an uphill battle, you have to play carefully and even then you get not so big chances, but it is not impossible and can still be fun. That's why I suggest adding 2-round game mode - it's perfectly fair and with thought out tiebreaker(s) may even fix gameplay a bit.

I found the thread with statistics: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/140502 ... far-easier

The ratio is 78/22 in favor of the killer when players have an ELO of 1700 and above. I did mis-remember the specific statistics. But my original point still stands - I'm confused as to why people think that a game where one side has a 78% chance of winning is fair. That's more than 3/4ths, which is ridiculously high!

[demiurgsage]

no one said that sides are equal. Nobody force you to play this game.

[Shaq Jenkins]

no one said that sides are equal. Nobody force you to play this game.

If you're referring to me, I'd like you to quote the exact comment where I said that someone was forcing me to play this game. I'm offering suggestions for how to make it better. If something is broken, it should be fixed, don't you think?

You'll notice that I don't play this game anymore and it's not as popular as it used to be. I've also talked with other players who are no longer interested in it because of the imbalances. As I said several times before, this game has a lot of potential but needs tons of improvement. I refuse to buy it or play it regularly until it's fixed.

[demiurgsage]

On BGG forum there are more balanced variants of rules. (Probably some of them are created or approved by game designer.) But it's unlikely that they will be implemented on BGA. Because you need to contact the game designer, receive a permission, and find a guy who write the code for BGA that implement changes.

[Deo]

On BGG forum there are more balanced variants of rules. (Probably some of them are created or approved by game designer.) But it's unlikely that they will be implemented on BGA. Because you need to contact the game designer, receive a permission, and find a guy who write the code for BGA that implement changes.

It's not that hard. Implementing few changes when the core of the game is already done is pretty easy. Legal permission could be a problem indeed, but I don't see why designer would oppose fixing a game that he didn't mind putting online in the first place. And again, while at it another 2p game mode (Sleuth vs Hitman) can be implemented, which seems to be more balanced and more fun.

[Een]

We heard that this "quit to get the other player to be the inspector" thing happened some months ago, but believed it was marginal. It seems like it's still ongoing and used to abuse the rankings. We'll be thinking about something to prevent this from being possible.

From now on, if the table admin leaves the table after setting the option to "First player is the inspector", the option is automatically reset to the default "Random" value.

Also, we reached to the game designer about a rule variant to make the inspector more powerful, and he proposed us a rule change not yet heavily tested but on which he'd be glad to get feedback from the community. The developer for Noir ch huang agreed to implement that option, so it should be available sometime in the next months when he gets the time to work on it.

I'll update this thread (and make an annoucement on the "Noir players" group when it's ready.

[senatorhung]

Also, we reached to the game designer about a rule variant to make the inspector more powerful, and he proposed us a rule change not yet heavily tested but on which he'd be glad to get feedback from the community. The developer for Noir ch huang agreed to implement that option, so it should be available sometime in the next months when he gets the time to work on it.

I'll update this thread (and make an annoucement on the "Noir players" group when it's ready.

thanks for the effort Een ! looking forward to seeing if the rule change will balance the game out.