Chinagold - new rule in new edition

[DrKarotte]

The actual edition of Chinagold has a rule which is not implemented in BGA and should be added, at least as separate option.
It concerns the possibility to turn one gold marker back. This can't be sone as often as you want anymore but only two times more than the opponent. This is realised by two gold nuggets both player get at the beginning. When turning back one disc you have to give one nugget to the opponent. When no nugget is left you cannot turn back discs anymore - you have to wait until you get one back from the opponent.

Some players do almost nothing more than turning back gold. The match gets extremly slow and kind of boring by this rather destructive way of playing which apparently wasn't intended by the author (that's why he changed the rule).

[hache3]

It has been discussed lot of times. The option of turning markers back was added to let players avoid very bad luck. As unintended consequence it allowed a new way of playing, that is liked by some and very disliked by others. Most of the best players turn back markers heavily.

[Liallan]

Most of the best players turn back markers heavily.

Do they? One of these days I should watch more games by the better players, but I've watch one or two on Yucata where that was not the case. Rather than turning them back, they were just doing the best to "set up" things for later, in a way that was difficult for their opponent. I haven't been playing it that long and am still trying to figure what works best.

But... I see nothing wrong with having an option for a new set of rules, assuming there wouldn't be a problem being allowed to do so. But I'd certainly want to keep it an option.

[senatorhung]

The option of turning markers back was added to let players avoid very bad luck. As unintended consequence it allowed a new way of playing, that is liked by some and very disliked by others. Most of the best players turn back markers heavily.

count me as liking the ability to turn back markers. it makes the game much more strategic and much less reliant on luck of the dice. implementing the 'new' rule as suggested by the OP would remove China Gold from my playing list.

[Liallan]

Actually, I never saw a problem with turning back markers. I have turned them back 2 (even 3 rarely) times in a row, and turned another later in the game, before my opponent ever did so. I guess I didn't see the point because I don't just continue to turn them back all the time.

But I have an opponent right now who has not once actually just turned new markers over, not once. I turn them over, and then he turns one back over, every turn. I have no desire to use this new rule in general, and I wish this was predictable, cause it sure would come in handy on this game. I'm not one to tell someone how to play, but I'm getting very close to making a comment to this guy, possibly earning a red thumb in the process. I want to ask if he's ever planning on playing at all, or better, tell him I feel like I'm playing alone and don't see the point. I suppose I could just start turning back markers as well and play his little game. Wow, I've never seen anyone do this before. It is quite annoying.

[senatorhung]

Actually, I never saw a problem with turning back markers. I have turned them back 2 (even 3 rarely) times in a row, and turned another later in the game, before my opponent ever did so. I guess I didn't see the point because I don't just continue to turn them back all the time.

But I have an opponent right now who has not once actually just turned new markers over, not once. I turn them over, and then he turns one back over, every turn. I have no desire to use this new rule in general, and I wish this was predictable, cause it sure would come in handy on this game. I'm not one to tell someone how to play, but I'm getting very close to making a comment to this guy, possibly earning a red thumb in the process. I want to ask if he's ever planning on playing at all, or better, tell him I feel like I'm playing alone and don't see the point. I suppose I could just start turning back markers as well and play his little game. Wow, I've never seen anyone do this before. It is quite annoying.

1. you can't turn over a marker if there are no markers to turn
2. all you have to do is set things up so that you can finish 2 of your mountains / rivers on your next move. opponent blocks one .. you score the other. rinse and repeat.

[Liallan]

Actually, I never saw a problem with turning back markers. I have turned them back 2 (even 3 rarely) times in a row, and turned another later in the game, before my opponent ever did so. I guess I didn't see the point because I don't just continue to turn them back all the time.

But I have an opponent right now who has not once actually just turned new markers over, not once. I turn them over, and then he turns one back over, every turn. I have no desire to use this new rule in general, and I wish this was predictable, cause it sure would come in handy on this game. I'm not one to tell someone how to play, but I'm getting very close to making a comment to this guy, possibly earning a red thumb in the process. I want to ask if he's ever planning on playing at all, or better, tell him I feel like I'm playing alone and don't see the point. I suppose I could just start turning back markers as well and play his little game. Wow, I've never seen anyone do this before. It is quite annoying.

1. you can't turn over a marker if there are no markers to turn
2. all you have to do is set things up so that you can finish 2 of your mountains / rivers on your next move. opponent blocks one .. you score the other. rinse and repeat.

Uh, yeah, I've been trying to do that. Although finally one turn I just turned one back over myself and figured I keep doing that til he stopped. That's when he finally turned markers up two turns in a row. Although once he got something, he seems to have gone back to just turning mine back over. It's not about the winning or losing. It's about the annoyance. Talk about a game feeling like solitaire.

[senatorhung]

Actually, I never saw a problem with turning back markers. I have turned them back 2 (even 3 rarely) times in a row, and turned another later in the game, before my opponent ever did so. I guess I didn't see the point because I don't just continue to turn them back all the time.

But I have an opponent right now who has not once actually just turned new markers over, not once. I turn them over, and then he turns one back over, every turn. I have no desire to use this new rule in general, and I wish this was predictable, cause it sure would come in handy on this game. I'm not one to tell someone how to play, but I'm getting very close to making a comment to this guy, possibly earning a red thumb in the process. I want to ask if he's ever planning on playing at all, or better, tell him I feel like I'm playing alone and don't see the point. I suppose I could just start turning back markers as well and play his little game. Wow, I've never seen anyone do this before. It is quite annoying.

1. you can't turn over a marker if there are no markers to turn
2. all you have to do is set things up so that you can finish 2 of your mountains / rivers on your next move. opponent blocks one .. you score the other. rinse and repeat.

Uh, yeah, I've been trying to do that. Although finally one turn I just turned one back over myself and figured I keep doing that til he stopped. That's when he finally turned markers up two turns in a row. Although once he got something, he seems to have gone back to just turning mine back over. It's not about the winning or losing. It's about the annoyance. Talk about a game feeling like solitaire.

he 'finally' turned marker up because he finally got a roll that did not force him to make a disadvantageous move. the strategy of the game is to set up the board to minimize your losses on bad rolls and maximize your gains on good rolls. i have come back from a 20 to nil deficit when i set up the board so that when it got down to the '1 or 2' stage .. any move the opponent made would give me the remainder of a mountain or river. but to do that, you have to manage those bad rolls, and turning over markers is often the best strategy versus giving away easy points to your opponent.

[Liallan]

he 'finally' turned marker up because he finally got a roll that did not force him to make a disadvantageous move. the strategy of the game is to set up the board to minimize your losses on bad rolls and maximize your gains on good rolls. i have come back from a 20 to nil deficit when i set up the board so that when it got down to the '1 or 2' stage .. any move the opponent made would give me the remainder of a mountain or river. but to do that, you have to manage those bad rolls, and turning over markers is often the best strategy versus giving away easy points to your opponent.

Which is why I won 38-23, and why after 10 games he's at 100, and only cause you can't go minus at that point or he'd be at 0. So you're making assumptions about what he was doing.

If he got a roll that could get him gold that turn, he took it, and if he got a roll that couldn't, he turned one back over. He wasn't doing a thing that set him up for anything later. In fact, I'd become aware that he'd go for the "easy move" of taking gold instead of paying attention to what worked best in the end. So in the immediate he made things difficult on me, but in the long-run it lost him the game and I had the control at the end of the game.

There seems to be much disagreement on this, some people thinking continually turning markers back over being bad, and someone like you thinking it's a good way to play. Maybe both work. I turn markers back over too, just never seen anyone do it so many turns in a row.

What I do know was that it was really annoying

[RicardoRix]

This game plays best when you can't turn back any markers. Can that be added as an option?