Logger Implementation (and possibly other games too)

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Espina
Posts: 124
Joined: 23 April 2016, 06:35

Logger Implementation (and possibly other games too)

Post by Espina »

Is it possible to change the implementation of Logger so that when a player has no move available, the code can recognize that and automatically proceed to the next player's turn. In the current implementation, even when the player cannot do anything, they still have to come online and click on the "Stay put" button. This is pretty frustrating, certainly for the opponents, possibly even for the affected player. For instance see the position in Logger #29347622: starting at move number 41, the blue player is protested into a corner and has no moves for the remainder of the game. But he still has to keep coming and clicking on "stay put" many many times, before the game ends.

Can this be changed? I know there are other games (e.g. Hive) where if a player has no move, play proceeds to the next player.

Thanks!
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RicardoRix
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Re: Logger Implementation (and possibly other games too)

Post by RicardoRix »

Well, on the flip side, you are either involved with playing the game or you're not.

How are you going to learn from experience with the abject humility of having to stay there totally useless just clicking on the pass button.
That is probably a very valuable lesson.

In russian railroads, it even says 'you have nothing more left to do, you must pass' with a pass button.
Stone Age forces the last person to pick a resource where there is only 1 available choice.

If you are not involved with the process any possible automated effect can easily lead to a misunderstanding.

In your example, it's 'I was half way through playing this turned based game of logger and all of a sudden I'd just lost, somehow it kept skipping my turns'.

The hapless opponent always has the option to concede.
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Espina
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Joined: 23 April 2016, 06:35

Re: Logger Implementation (and possibly other games too)

Post by Espina »

RicardoRix wrote:Well, on the flip side, you are either involved with playing the game or you're not.
But the thing is, you are not. That is the point. In turn based games, you can see you have lost, and there is no incentive to keep coming back to click on "Stay"
How are you going to learn from experience with the abject humility of having to stay there totally useless just clicking on the pass button.
That is probably a very valuable lesson.
And one that many people do not seem to learn. They *do* make the same mistakes again. Anyway, I guess you are talking about real-time games, whereas I am talking about turn-based. There is no question of staying to click on pass. The question is whether you come back to click on pass. Which they often don't. And of course one can skip their turn, five days later, but that is very frustrating.
In russian railroads, it even says 'you have nothing more left to do, you must pass' with a pass button.
Stone Age forces the last person to pick a resource where there is only 1 available choice.

If you are not involved with the process any possible automated effect can easily lead to a misunderstanding.

In your example, it's 'I was half way through playing this turned based game of logger and all of a sudden I'd just lost, somehow it kept skipping my turns'.
I don't know anything about RR or SA, but I haven't heard any complaints about it in Hive, where if you do not have a move the computer says "Player A has no moves. It is Player B's turn again". No possibility of misunderstanding -- you can follow it in the logs.

The hapless opponent always has the option to concede.
Ah but they don't. Most of the games I play are tournament games, and they do not have the option to concede. Whether they should or not is a whole other discussion.

In any case, as I pointed out, I am only asking for a feature that already exists in some other games like HIve. So it is not that radical.
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Een
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Joined: 16 June 2010, 19:52

Re: Logger Implementation (and possibly other games too)

Post by Een »

Espina wrote:In any case, as I pointed out, I am only asking for a feature that already exists in some other games like HIve. So it is not that radical.
As you may know, on BGA a lot of games are implemented by volunteer developers from the community. That is the case for Logger. Further changes mostly depend on that developer, except if he/she isn't available anymore and someone volunteers to take over (which is usually not easy because when you take over, you have to understand how things got done in the first place). The fact that a feature exists in another game is actually not relevant, since the code for that game is different and probably written by someone else.

The best way to reach a developer with a suggestion is to raise a bug report and mention in the title that it's a suggestion (developers don't necessarily read forum posts). Then, it depends on the time the developer has, and the number of votes your suggestion collects (which is an indication of how important/useful it is to players).
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Espina
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Joined: 23 April 2016, 06:35

Re: Logger Implementation (and possibly other games too)

Post by Espina »

Een wrote: As you may know, on BGA a lot of games are implemented by volunteer developers from the community.


Actually I didn't know that. I probably would have realized it if I had given any thought to it, but...

Thank you, volunteer developers from the community.

Out of curiosity, how does one become one of these volunteer developers? (Not that I can do it at the moment, but maybe sometime in the future...)
That is the case for Logger. Further changes mostly depend on that developer, except if he/she isn't available anymore and someone volunteers to take over (which is usually not easy because when you take over, you have to understand how things got done in the first place). The fact that a feature exists in another game is actually not relevant, since the code for that game is different and probably written by someone else.

The best way to reach a developer with a suggestion is to raise a bug report and mention in the title that it's a suggestion (developers don't necessarily read forum posts). Then, it depends on the time the developer has, and the number of votes your suggestion collects (which is an indication of how important/useful it is to players).
Well, maybe I will try that, or maybe it isn't really that important.
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Een
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Joined: 16 June 2010, 19:52

Re: Logger Implementation (and possibly other games too)

Post by Een »

Espina wrote: Out of curiosity, how does one become one of these volunteer developers? (Not that I can do it at the moment, but maybe sometime in the future...)
Just try the "Game developers" link in the footer, it leads to the development platform "BGA Studio" :)
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