Turn order when "factions are selected by auction"

[Patsatsoufis]

Hello,

I was hoping for some clarification with regards to the player order when the factions are selected by auction vs when the factions are selected in player order. In my opinion, there seems to be some inconsistency here as to what "Clockwise from first player" means in the two cases.

In the "factions are selected in player order" setting, the setting "Clockwise from first player" always means that the the first person to pass in round #N is the first player to act in round #(N+1), and then the rest of the players play in clockwise order.

In the "factions are selected by auction" setting, the setting "Clockwise from first player" results in some other (unclear to me) way of determining the first person to act on every turn (and then the rest of the players go in clockwise order). See for example my currently ongoing game
https://boardgamearena.com/1/terramysti ... e=64494988#
in which
In round #1, the player Ippokratis passes first (move 54) and the game log displays the message
"Ippokratis passes and becomes the first player for the next round"
and, despite that, the first player to act on round #2 is the player Abigail.

In the following report
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=13124
Een makes it clear that this is not a bug, which is why I am not posting this as a bug report, but could then someone please explain to me:

1. why "clockwise from first player" means a different thing when the factions are not selected by auction

2. why the (in my opinion very misleading) message "[Player name] passes and becomes the first player for the next round" is displayed when a player passes first, if someone else is going to act first in the next round.

3. if Abigail will be the first player to act in every round of the above game.

Thank you very much!

[sprockitz]

Just because Een is an admin doesn't mean he is always right, because this is most definitely a bug.

The bug happens at the start of the 2nd round where the 1st player (the one to chose a faction first, not the one to win the 1st player faction) goes first in the second round regardless of who passed first at the end of the first round.

Anyway turn order by passing order is the better way to play anyway, so this was one argument I didn't feel was worth pursuing

[Patsatsoufis]

The bug happens at the start of the 2nd round where the 1st player (the one to chose a faction first, not the one to win the 1st player faction) goes first in the second round regardless of who passed first at the end of the first round.

Thank you for your reply.
So, this means that in round #3 (and all subsequent rounds) the first player will be determined as usual, i.e. it is going to be whoever passed first on the previous round?

Anyway turn order by passing order is the better way to play anyway, so this was one argument I didn't feel was worth pursuing

Do you get this by selecting "variable turn order"?

[sprockitz]

The bug happens at the start of the 2nd round where the 1st player (the one to chose a faction first, not the one to win the 1st player faction) goes first in the second round regardless of who passed first at the end of the first round.
Anyway turn order by passing order is the better way to play anyway, so this was one argument I didn't feel was worth pursuing

Thank you for your reply.
So, this means that in round #3 (and all subsequent rounds) the first player will be determined as usual, i.e. it is going to be whoever passed first on the previous round?

Yes, it returns to normal (correct) starting in round 3

Anyway turn order by passing order is the better way to play anyway, so this was one argument I didn't feel was worth pursuing

Do you get this by selecting "variable turn order"?

Yes, that is variable turn order.

[Een]

Just because Een is an admin doesn't mean he is always right

Indeed, I try to be, but in the end - sorry to disappoint - I'm only human

In the mentioned bug report, I explain what has been coded for the combination of "auction + clockwise turn order". Basically, in this mode the auction is for the faction and the position of the faction for the first round, and then turn order goes back to clockwise from the original start player from turn 2 onwards.

From what I read in this thread, there shouldn't be a log message "Ippokratis passes and becomes the first player for the next round" but otherwise it's working as intended (from my understanding of the auction rules for this case, doesn't mean that I understood correctly or even that it's good to do it like that).

Actually, since auction creates a variable turn order for the first turn in any case, it's better to use variable turn order. Maybe I should just have made variable turn order mandatory with auction, and that would have been clearer.

[sprockitz]

Just because Een is an admin doesn't mean he is always right

From what I read in this thread, there shouldn't be a log message "Ippokratis passes and becomes the first player for the next round" but otherwise it's working as intended (from my understanding of the auction rules for this case, doesn't mean that I understood correctly or even that it's good to

Actually, since auction creates a variable turn order for the first turn in any case, it's better to use variable turn order. Maybe I should just have made variable turn order mandatory with auction, and that would have been clearer.

Both auction and base game clockwise in turn order rules are clockwise in turn order starting with the player who passed first (not the player arbitrarily assigned player 1 at the start of the game). From base rules page 8, “8. passing and new starting player” “the first player to pass becomes the starting player for the next round”. With auction the turn order you win in auction (assigned to each faction) is for the first round only. Starting round 2 you use first player to pass becomes new starting player.

I agree making variable turn order mandatory for auction would be good. I’m guessing a very high percent of auction games use variable turn order. As clockwise makes no sense as you haven’t done it in round 1 switching to it at round 2 is just awkward.

[Een]

Both auction and base game clockwise in turn order rules are clockwise in turn order starting with the player who passed first (not the player arbitrarily assigned player 1 at the start of the game). From base rules page 8, “8. passing and new starting player” “the first player to pass becomes the starting player for the next round”. With auction the turn order you win in auction (assigned to each faction) is for the first round only. Starting round 2 you use first player to pass becomes new starting player.

Good point. Not sure why I didn't do that. Probably a good case of me not being right

I agree making variable turn order mandatory for auction would be good. I’m guessing a very high percent of auction games use variable turn order. As clockwise makes no sense as you haven’t done it in round 1 switching to it at round 2 is just awkward.

Yes, variable turn order is 79% of games played in the last 30 days.
So auction + clockwise is really an edge case that would probably not be missed.

[Een]

Both auction and base game clockwise in turn order rules are clockwise in turn order starting with the player who passed first (not the player arbitrarily assigned player 1 at the start of the game). From base rules page 8, “8. passing and new starting player” “the first player to pass becomes the starting player for the next round”. With auction the turn order you win in auction (assigned to each faction) is for the first round only. Starting round 2 you use first player to pass becomes new starting player.

Good point. Not sure why I didn't do that. Probably a good case of me not being right

I checked, and indeed that was a mistake. One too many line copy pasted.
It has been fixed now. I'll leave that option open, even if it's rarely used, why not if some people like it.