It is very bad that you ignored the desire of the players to see kalah-6 in the Arena.
Arena Season 2: let's go!
Re: Arena Season 2: let's go!
Yes, these are the main problems...they don't care what the top players are saying...they've said they have to cater to the majority not the top few. And consequently they lack the understanding of what the competition should be...a competition has to cater to the top players for it to have any validity.Pistolero wrote: ↑09 July 2020, 08:57 I'm pretty sure they don't give a damn about what top players are saying.
They keep repeating : "Arena is awesome. Statistics say we see more tables for the Arena than for regular games". Probably they saw more new Premium accounts since the Arena was created, and they are just happy with that. With thousands of players here, they swear only by their statistics and they don't care about what top players are saying. We are just a small drop in the ocean of all players.
The Arena is fun until there are ~20 Elite players. Then the whole systems crashes down and becomes a new lame ELO implementation where you are forced to play with bad players.
BGA is a great website to PLAY games. But BGA should not try to determine the "best" players in some games, as it completely lacks the understanding of what competition should be.
When they release a new system you'd hope they'd be on top of bugs, but they seem to have been largely ignored because they only impact the top players...well don't claim you are trying to find the best player's then stab them in the back by not addressing the bugs that are degrading the competition.
Top players lose points when someone else quits: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=17503
Suggestion to fix K factor, Elo based on player count, normalizing Elo across games: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=14455
Trophy Prestige (Experience) not properly updated: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=20011
Elo for team games doesn't work as it counts game as a tie with your partner: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=11297
Again the one size fits all approach to arena doesn't work. Having only a regular season is always going to lead to issues...real time and turn based players won't play each other, real time players in different parts of the world won't play each other, and with the current setup for popular games getting other games with all top players is rare. A playoff is needed and it would have to be turn-based (to make it most inclusive as it'd be unfair if your title game was scheduled for the middle of the night or some other time when you couldn't be there).
Back to the one size doesn't fit all...break up the games based on popularity...most games you should just signup for a league at the start of the season which has a set number of matches to be played so that everyone is playing the same number of games...this could be a multi-stage tournament where you play several simultaneous games in an opening round with top players advancing to elimination rounds. These then become high intensity games that matter, instead of the current play lots and eventually move up in level approach. For more popular games to keep the real time option around, the game starting time system wasn't bad, but it never had a real chance...it has promise to give much better matchups in real time than the current system...still with that it should finish with a playoff.
Re: Arena Season 2: let's go!
The problem is indeed that for top players, the arena is just falling short in a lot of aspects.
For me personally it's also the perception, because BGA really advertises the arena mode as the 'competetive' mode and the normal/simple game as the 'fun' mode.
With the current implementation of the Arena.... this is so wrong.
It is FAR more competetive to play a 'simple' game and filter on ELO (ex strong players +) than playing in arena . The competition in arena is a lot 'softer' and is not really making the best players come out on top. The ELO rating imo reflects the strenght of a player much better than his rank in arena (off course, the less random there is in a game the closer the arena rank could be to the real strenght ranking)
For example this text BGA posts about arena mode just isn't making a lot of sence in current implementation.
I would argue simple mode (with filters) is far, far more comptetive than Arena mode, for sure the popualar games where there are 1000s of players in Elite.
=》 in this case, simple game is the competetive mode, so pls don't advertise Arena mode as the competetive mode.
Arena Mode is 100% optional. You can play on BGA using "Simple mode" and never care about it.
We created Arena Mode because playing "for fun" and playing "competitively" is not really the same thing. We want to regroup players who are playing "for fun" together, and players who are playing "competitively" together
Before Arena Mode, it was unclear if a game was "competitive" or not because a lot of players care about their ELO ranking. With "Arena Mode" and "Simple mode", we want to create a place where you can focus on competition and rankings, and a place where you can just play games without caring about any "metagame".
That being said, I still love playing on BGA. Both arena and regular games. Just pls, don't call the current arena competetive.
For me personally it's also the perception, because BGA really advertises the arena mode as the 'competetive' mode and the normal/simple game as the 'fun' mode.
With the current implementation of the Arena.... this is so wrong.
It is FAR more competetive to play a 'simple' game and filter on ELO (ex strong players +) than playing in arena . The competition in arena is a lot 'softer' and is not really making the best players come out on top. The ELO rating imo reflects the strenght of a player much better than his rank in arena (off course, the less random there is in a game the closer the arena rank could be to the real strenght ranking)
For example this text BGA posts about arena mode just isn't making a lot of sence in current implementation.
I would argue simple mode (with filters) is far, far more comptetive than Arena mode, for sure the popualar games where there are 1000s of players in Elite.
=》 in this case, simple game is the competetive mode, so pls don't advertise Arena mode as the competetive mode.
Arena Mode is 100% optional. You can play on BGA using "Simple mode" and never care about it.
We created Arena Mode because playing "for fun" and playing "competitively" is not really the same thing. We want to regroup players who are playing "for fun" together, and players who are playing "competitively" together
Before Arena Mode, it was unclear if a game was "competitive" or not because a lot of players care about their ELO ranking. With "Arena Mode" and "Simple mode", we want to create a place where you can focus on competition and rankings, and a place where you can just play games without caring about any "metagame".
That being said, I still love playing on BGA. Both arena and regular games. Just pls, don't call the current arena competetive.
Re: Arena Season 2: let's go!
I totally agree.
Arena is just for fun, not competition.
I enjoyed having fun to reach elite. Now the fun is over. So basically, less than one week of fun and now this big joke will last 3 months.....
Arena is just for fun, not competition.
I enjoyed having fun to reach elite. Now the fun is over. So basically, less than one week of fun and now this big joke will last 3 months.....
Re: Arena Season 2: let's go!
I really agree to what Foppeke and Pistolero said.
The overload of Elite players in 7Wonders Arena caused much frustrations -- such as steep down of ranking once I failed to achieve victory (because of non-ideal choices made by one of my opponents, such as passing highly valuable cards to their neighbors).
I'm not blaming their plays, but I found many Elite players needed more practices to become "REAL" elite players. I myself read Pistolero's 7Wonders play guide and tried to absorb key logic to become a better player.
But as Pistolero mentioned, a chance to reach to Elite league definitely attracts players.
To keep the fun of this game (for my experience, 7Wonders) as well as competitiveness of Arena this season, I would mention in line with Foppeke's opinion.
What I found was, "ELO" somehow represented player's understandings on games. I think that to add one more filter (based on ELO, as Foppeke mentioned) should be very helpful for players want to play really competitive games!
Thanks!
The overload of Elite players in 7Wonders Arena caused much frustrations -- such as steep down of ranking once I failed to achieve victory (because of non-ideal choices made by one of my opponents, such as passing highly valuable cards to their neighbors).
I'm not blaming their plays, but I found many Elite players needed more practices to become "REAL" elite players. I myself read Pistolero's 7Wonders play guide and tried to absorb key logic to become a better player.
But as Pistolero mentioned, a chance to reach to Elite league definitely attracts players.
To keep the fun of this game (for my experience, 7Wonders) as well as competitiveness of Arena this season, I would mention in line with Foppeke's opinion.
What I found was, "ELO" somehow represented player's understandings on games. I think that to add one more filter (based on ELO, as Foppeke mentioned) should be very helpful for players want to play really competitive games!
Thanks!
Last edited by Hyeungok on 10 July 2020, 21:17, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Arena Season 2: let's go!
I totally agree with the ELO filter. Playing against someone much stronger or weaker can be frustrating for both players.
To add insights to the discussion, I had done a statistical analysis few times ago, about the number of games you need to play to expect promotion, depending on your victory rate: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewto ... =3&t=16109
As you can see there, if you get 4 stars for winning and -2 for losing, you have good chance to get promoted above 20% chance of winning (for 2 players games).
To add insights to the discussion, I had done a statistical analysis few times ago, about the number of games you need to play to expect promotion, depending on your victory rate: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewto ... =3&t=16109
As you can see there, if you get 4 stars for winning and -2 for losing, you have good chance to get promoted above 20% chance of winning (for 2 players games).
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Shippolito
- Posts: 42
- Joined: 25 May 2020, 08:02
Re: Arena Season 2: let's go!
For a given game, I'd like to know how many players there are per league, what are the min/average/max ELO of the players of each league etc...
I agree with the general feeling that the Elite league can be populated with many weak players as demonstrated by my experience in 7 Wonders but I'd like to put a number on it.
An histogram of the ELO level of each game in normal mode would be great too!
If such data exists, please let me know where I can see it
I agree with the general feeling that the Elite league can be populated with many weak players as demonstrated by my experience in 7 Wonders but I'd like to put a number on it.
An histogram of the ELO level of each game in normal mode would be great too!
If such data exists, please let me know where I can see it
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BarboRosso
- Posts: 43
- Joined: 10 March 2019, 11:09
Re: Arena Season 2: let's go!
When will finish exactly???
2 October or 5 October???
At what hour? Greenwich?
2 October or 5 October???
At what hour? Greenwich?