How is Arena mode competitive?

[estroncio]

I usually play in a "competitive" way to some games... and I really fail to understand how Arena mode, as it is, is the competitive mode. I rather trust Elo.

Basically, with the new Arena mode, you should not care too much about your ELO anymore. Think about these examples:
_ National Soccer teams do not care too much about their "FIFA rank", while they do care about winning the World cup.
_ Best Chess players do not care too much about their ELO, while they do care about being FIDE World Champion.
_ ... and so on.

This is a bit puzzling... Let's take chess as the gold standard:

• Rules are well-defined.
• Usually standard chess is played and not any variant.
• Times are well-defined: blitz, classic, etc.
• You know your opponent beforehand.
• A tournament has the same rules every time.

Now, compared to Carcassonne (for example) in Arena mode:

• Rules are NOT well-defined: I simply see " Number of players and game settings are fixed for each Arena season." and I do NOT know which expansions or settings will be used.
• You do NOT play standard Carcassonne, you might end up play something different.
• As before, NOT well defined, I do not know.
• Unknown opponent (I guess this one is understandable).
• Different rules for each Arena season.

So the game I play in a competitive way is Carcassonne, not Carcassonne + some expansion. I couldn't care less about that game. Therefore, the ranking doesn't provide any useful information to me. Moreover, I am not even sure about which game the ranking is talking about.

At least in the simple mode I can choose the game I want and play with opponents with a high Elo. That seems more competitive than playing against a somehow random player to a somehow random game.

Am I missing something?

[whatshisbucket]

Yes, you are missing something. Simply clicking on the cog enables you to look at the settings for the game (number of players, etc.) and also allows you to specify the speed at which you want to play.

Your last point is silly; the games that have different rules for different arena seasons are those for which there are multiple ways to play that are interesting. Chess, for example, (arguably) only has one interesting way to play, and thus the rules are fixed for all seasons (like OTB chess tournaments).

[Cheery Dog]

Carcassonne is just standard in arena. That hasn't changed between sessions, and I think it would be unlikely to

[estroncio]

Yes, you are missing something. Simply clicking on the cog enables you to look at the settings for the game (number of players, etc.) and also allows you to specify the speed at which you want to play.

I have always had that cog configured to avoid the use of any expansions. Yet when I played in Arena mode The River and Inns & Cathedrals expansions were enabled. See game https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=86665614.

Moreover, that contradicts what BGA is saying: "Number of players and game settings are fixed for each Arena season". How are they fixed if you can change them?

Your last point is silly; the games that have different rules for different arena seasons are those for which there are multiple ways to play that are interesting. Chess, for example, (arguably) only has one interesting way to play, and thus the rules are fixed for all seasons (like OTB chess tournaments).

Chess is not owned by any publisher, if it were you would have tons of expansions being pushed ahead. It is natural that a company owning a game wants to push expansions to the market if they had a hit. YET Carcassonne national tournaments are played with the base game and world championships are also played with the base game, so arguably that one is the interesting way to play. Even the publisher, who has a great interest in promoting expansions, is organizing tournaments with the base game. That tells you something.

In any case, it is fine if some people are interested in playing with some expansions. The main issue here is that I don't know what game I will be playing. As stated, cog doesn't work and contradicts what BGA is saying.

Carcassonne is just standard in arena. That hasn't changed between sessions, and I think it would be unlikely to

If that were the case it would be nice to know it beforehand. That message saying "Number of players and game settings are fixed for each Arena season" should be completed with "and these are the settings for this season: ...".

Not sure it is the case though. You are contradicting what whatshisbucket is saying...

BUT more importantly, you are in contradiction with this game: https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=86665614. You can see it is a game in arena mode and expansions were enabled.

[Cheery Dog]

Season 1 apparently did have an expansion attached.

Season 2 (aka what we're in now) is fully base game only.

[dschingis27]

Moreover, that contradicts what BGA is saying: "Number of players and game settings are fixed for each Arena season". How are they fixed if you can change them?

So, have you tried changing the settings after clicking the cogwheel? It's NOT possible in Arena Mode, because settings are fixed (except for game speed)!

Clicking the cogwheel is the exact way to check how game settings are fixed for the current season. Admittedly, it is not the best UI design in my opinion.

Your example game is from the last season! The current season that started 7th July consists only of the base game.

AFAIK the variants chosen for Arena mode are mostly chosen by popularity on BGA. They change between seasons to make different tastes happy. There could be multiple leaderboards for popular games but the BGA admins don't like it and they stick with changing game variants between seasons. PS: If you go to the Carcasonne Forum, there already has been a poll and discussion about Arena setting.

Last hint, you can change the leaderboard to All-Time if you care about Elo more. But in Elo, all game variants are merged, there is no specific Elo for each game variant.

[nairobiny]

Now, compared to Carcassonne (for example) in Arena mode:

• Rules are NOT well-defined: I simply see " Number of players and game settings are fixed for each Arena season." and I do NOT know which expansions or settings will be used.
• You do NOT play standard Carcassonne, you might end up play something different.
• As before, NOT well defined, I do not know.
• Unknown opponent (I guess this one is understandable).
• Different rules for each Arena season.

So the game I play in a competitive way is Carcassonne, not Carcassonne + some expansion. I couldn't care less about that game. Therefore, the ranking doesn't provide any useful information to me. Moreover, I am not even sure about which game the ranking is talking about.

At least in the simple mode I can choose the game I want and play with opponents with a high Elo. That seems more competitive than playing against a somehow random player to a somehow random game.

Am I missing something?

Unfortunately, yes

You can see a complete list of the expansions/settings for every game here. You can also see the settings for previous seasons from that link.

[nmego]

Where did you find that link? This should be more publicly visible.

[estroncio]

Clicking the cogwheel is the exact way to check how game settings are fixed for the current season. Admittedly, it is not the best UI design in my opinion.

Thanks for that. I would agree, not the best ui.
You should be able to review the settings before the match, just like in simple games. Or at the very least, review in them in your first game within a season.

AFAIK the variants chosen for Arena mode are mostly chosen by popularity on BGA. They change between seasons to make different tastes happy. There could be multiple leaderboards for popular games but the BGA admins don't like it and they stick with changing game variants between seasons. PS: If you go to the Carcasonne Forum, there already has been a poll and discussion about Arena setting.

Multiple leaderboard is the most sensible thing imo. As I mentioned before, changing game variants between seasons is not in any way "competitive". A world tournament of whatever game/sport normally has the same rules every time (with minor variations).

You can see a complete list of the expansions/settings for every game here. You can also see the settings for previous seasons from that link.

Thanks for that.

Where did you find that link? This should be more publicly visible.

Clearly, it should. If this is suppose to be a competition rules should be very very clear. And they are not.

---

Anyway, I gave Carcassonne current season a go. There were some good games, but...:

• I faced people that barely knew how to play... so I thought, maybe I just need better score for the season.
• Then I got the score, still faced not that good opponents.
• Some people simply didn't move at all. (I believe this is a consequence of the game being auto-accepted.

Luckily I can put a restriction to play players that are my level... Let's see how it goes now.

[dschingis27]

You should be able to review the settings before the match, just like in simple games. Or at the very least, review in them in your first game within a season.

For ANY game on BGA: You can review the enabled game setting always in-game by a click on top right menu, there you have a section "Game options". Or you scroll below the gameboard and click there on "Options", you find the current game settings there, too.

• I faced people that barely knew how to play... so I thought, maybe I just need better score for the season.
• Then I got the score, still faced not that good opponents.
• Some people simply didn't move at all. (I believe this is a consequence of the game being auto-accepted.

Luckily I can put a restriction to play players that are my level... Let's see how it goes now.

Now you hit the real problems of Arena Mode. You are not the first one to complain about these. Restricting players helps a bit though.