Pythia v1.3 - visual aid helper for 7 Wonders BGA

[Tadachini]

Pythia v0.8 released!

Please go to https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/406492-bga-pythia and reinstall the script to update it.

New features

• Cards Worth. In addition to guild and commercial building, Pythia now calculates points for scientific and military cards.
• Military Strength. Next to player's coin icon, Pythia displays how many shields a player has built so far.

[Tadachini]

Pythia major release - v1.0!

Please either update from the Tampermonkey menu or go directly to https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/406492-bga-pythia and reinstall the script.

New features

• No more cards in hands. I had a conversation with BGA admins who talked to the game publisher and game designer about Pythia. Their verdict was that every functionality is fine and in line with the spirit of the game except card tracking. So to respect their decision, Pythia doesn't offer this feature anymore.
• Pythia is officially not a cheat and is safe to use. In the same conversation, BGA admins reached a conclusion that Pythia doesn't break any site rules and doesn't give unfair advantage. Without card tracking, Pythia only offers visual and math help which is all jolly good.
• New edition support. Upcoming new game edition is already fully supported.
• Discard pile integration. Every card in discard pile will show card worth info (both points and coins) whenever you build a stage of Hali wonder.
• Rich boards. In addition to leader & runner up positions, player boards now display player score and military power in shields. This is especially helpful when you are contemplating a trade - all info you need is there at a glance.
  

It's been 2 month since I started Pythia and I am super glad it left the grey zone and gained a proper status now. I would have thanked you all for your continuous support, but you completely failed that part .

Please enjoy updated Pythia and post any feedback or suggestions in this thread!

[sourisdudesert]

No more cards in hands. I had a conversation with BGA admins who talked to the game publisher and game designer about Pythia. Their verdict was that every functionality is fine and in line with the spirit of the game except card tracking. So to respect their decision, Pythia doesn't offer this feature anymore.

I'd like to explain this a little bit, by trying to summarize what have been discussed with the publisher of 7 Wonders.

Board games are built for humans, which are limited. And a lot of the fun you get from the games is due to these limitations (ex: inability to see all possible moves at Chess). In the particular case of 7 Wonders, the spirit of the game is to focus on your own hand and your neighbors, so only a super-hero could be able to keep track of everything. Keeping track of everything is changing 7 Wonders into a different game, which may be fun, but which won't be 7 Wonders as designed by its game designer.

This is why the publisher said they are disapproving this specific features.

The other features are not giving an unfair advantage: these are just visual helps that some of you may appreciate. As said previously, we don't consider that this is cheating

I'd like to take advantage of this post to thank Tadachini for his help on improving 7 Wonders adaptation, and especially for making way more simple the "trade options choice" in the BGA adaptation. This is a great help and a great improvement for all players

[pingus]

I'm really glad it stopped being a cheat!

[RicardoRix]

The other features are not giving an unfair advantage: these are just visual helps that some of you may appreciate. As said previously, we don't consider that this is cheating

Rhetorical question, if it's not advantageous to use it, then what exactly is it doing?
But definition it it's helpful then it's giving you an advantage.

This also in direct conflict with your own guidelines:
http://en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_St ... assistance

This is a great help and a great improvement for all players

How exactly can you speak for all players?

This is a complete dumbing down manuever. I do not appreciate it. Hopefully it will be a game option that's not the default.

[sourisdudesert]

This is a complete dumbing down manuever. I do not appreciate it. Hopefully it will be a game option that's not the default.

I think we are just not talking about the same thing

[6element]

This is pretty awesome news, actually.

[6element]

Also, turning it into an official game option for entire table and adding a filter for Pythia (like ELO and Reputation filters already in place) would be great.

[Tchungpo]

I have been following this thread for quite a while without intervening.
My opinion was that I was not in favor of having a card tracking system, as this is indeed not really in line with the spirit of 7 wonders (especially BGA makes it already way easier with all the info displayed, so crossing the line of cards tracking would have made the game too different). So while having respect for Tadachini's hard work and dedication to make this game better (at least by its standards ), I am happy to see the state of 1.0. This provides an improved optional UI, while not being a game breaker.

Especially it's great that you discussed openly on the whole project, discussed openly with BGA admins and the game designers. And more importantly that you have been listening to their feedbacks in a very gentleman manner (i.e. adapting your work to their request). Seeing that you could put your knowledge to the service of the BGA community is also great

The topic is extremly interesting as more and more board games are going online (not only on BGA --> also in other platforms). The same way we saw poker trackers rising in online poker, we now know that trackers could exist for Boardgame in the future (even if we dislike it, it might become a reality). Especially if some online boardgames become highly competitive. That might sound silly, but if you look at the current e-sport scene, large online boardgame tournaments might become a thing in the near future

Kudos for all this ! I might now finally give a try to Pythia as I feel comfortable that its current state is not bringing unfair advantage.

[Wonderful Plays]

All this post is my private opinion, I want to state that very clearly.
The situation is finally resolved and the end result is okay.

But I think we need to still acknowledge a few things:
1. The response from the admins was too slow in my opinion. This could have been said it's not okay, or not okay and under investigation from like day 2 or 3 not day 20. The first response was good, but it still did nothing to prevent people cheating with pythia for so long.
2. From Day 1 people were saying it's a cheat, the author denied it for so long. After people pointed out CoC on the site nothing was done.
After the admins said it is breaking, author still released new versions and he still was able to work for 7 wonders implementation, a dangerous precedent.
3. Author of this plugin was using it to gain ladder points and they haven't been taken away. Other players have been using it too.

If any of this is not correct please tell me (it will change my opinion drasticaly), as far as I know 1-3 are facts.

Lessons for the future:
- For the author: listen to community
- For the admins: react quicker, be ruthless when it comes to any forms of cheating.

As of right now this plugin is a visual improvement, but I still DON'T recommend anyone using Pythia for a few reasons:
- poor handling by the author once admins said it was no ok
- if you play real life 7 wonders it will make you play much worse
- if tournaments will ban this software, you will have a tougher time playing in them