Turn-based Arena: proposed solution to get it back

[Diablange74]

Hi,

I was surprised, then disappointed, then started to think...

Just like some other player (it seems), I wouldn't be shocked by promotions/demotions, but I see it with a slightly different angle.

What if the Arena was... a thermomether ?

I mean, this device can tell you what is the temperature at one precise moment but also what the maximum and minimum temperatures have been reached during the period of observation, right ? So maybe we could do it as well :
* Each zone is defined by a fixed number of arena points (frankly, just make it seasonal ELO, will ease many things...)
* A player belongs to one zone only, just like the current arena, and this zone is used to ease the table setups (same zone if possible, variation in points earned and lost according to the participants)
* A player has 1 new indicator : highest rank achieved during the season, make it worth less than final rank, but still something... People after badges will be delighted
* Lost points can make you move to a lower zone... where you will face people of your "current" level and/or will be able to win more points if playing against people from upper levels
* The lower division now has a negative range (temperatures below 0 ) just like the upper division has a specific range currently. If you get too low, nevermind, next season change, you'll be back on 0.
* Turn-based games cannot be started within the last week of season
* For unfinished turn-based games I see 3 options (can be cumulated) : x days before the end of season change turn-based games into "buffered time" games just like tournaments, and/or have a "buffer time" where no arena games at all can be played, so you have time to "wrap-up" the season, and/or implement a control that prevents player having "last season" turn-based games not finished to start ANY arena game...

I hope I'm clear enough (forgive me I'm french) with this proposition.

[kolofardos]

Leave it as it was. As you wrote 93% are realtime games. Then it shouldn't be that big influence for most of the people when only a few of the 7% turn based players are cheating. I guess turn based players would rather play with the low risk of being cheated than don't can play Arena at all.

I second that. Only real-time games in Arena mode.

[orei]

Technique A B and C can be solved by forcing the order of play and punishing the delays

I would add the following rules:

1.- For each game, in arena mode, you have to move first the game where you have been waited for longer.

For example:
- You are playing games A,B,C of RallymanGT, and game D,E of PuertoRico.
- It is your turn in B (from 06:00 am), C (from 07:00 am) and D (from 08:00 am)
- You cannot move on C, you have to move in B first. You can move on D (it is a different game)

2.- For each game, in arena mode, you cannot start/join a real time game if it is your turn in a turn-based game (maybe ignoring the games that are waiting for you in the last 30 minutes for easy joining).

Following the prior example:
- You have to move on B and C in order to start, or join a real time game of RallymanGT in area mode
- You have to move on D in order to start or join a real time game of PuertoRico in area mode


Separating in different games would allow playing some games faster than other (for example using a mobile device you can play one game but not another) but still solve the cheating problems.


I would also punish players that do not move at all and forces delays:

- For each arena season you can delay only in 5 games (or 10, I am not sure about what the limit should be)
- If you go beyond the limit you cannot play in that arena season anymore for that game.
- At the end of the season, any unfinished game where you are delayed substracts you X points. (if they are not delayed, they will not substract points)



You can also limit the number of concurrent turn-based games (1, or maybe 5 or 10) for each game, but that I do not like: if you are able to play, say, 50 games, without cheating... good for you!

Please refine as needed.
Thanks

[agila13]

I cannot agree. I can only play turn-based due to my lack of time. Why should I be punished for something somebody else does?


quote=kolofardos post_id=69284 time=1601989336 user_id=195133]

Leave it as it was. As you wrote 93% are realtime games. Then it shouldn't be that big influence for most of the people when only a few of the 7% turn based players are cheating. I guess turn based players would rather play with the low risk of being cheated than don't can play Arena at all.

I second that. Only real-time games in Arena mode.
[/quote]

[Lynxreign]

I mostly use Arena mode to just automatically get opponents. It isn't like you can really see how you did in previous Arena seasons anyway. I'd have thought your final position for each season would be shown with your badges or something, but if you aren't in the top 20 or so I can't even find them. I can't even see how I did last season, so what difference does it make?

[zaynonymous]

It sounds that the cheating largely involves 1) high volumes of current games for a user and 2) manipulation of season results in respect to the season deadline.

As many have stated already, certain games are only feasible via Turn-Based play for Arena matches.

HIGH-VOLUME solution: Determine a maximum allowance of current matches per game that would handcuff streaks. I would not be offended if I was limited to 5 matches per game (just as an example) because I usually can't intellectually handle more than that anyway. Streaks could not be accumulated with that volume, while simultaneously allowing a player to have many different types of games underway. I would suggest this to be implemented at all times during a season. This limitation would not punish the users that start and complete games; their fast pace of play would not be affected because they normally finish games.

END-OF-SEASON solution: Advertise the end of season two weeks before the deadline. Each current game would have the turn time adjusted to force the game to end a day before the deadline (would vary per game). Each game started after that two-week advertisement would also have the time adjusted. Do not allow any new games to start a week before the deadline because those abbreviated turn times would be too quick, and BGA would be interested in cleaning out the queue. ALL USERS THAT GO NEGATIVE WITH THEIR TIME AUTOMATICALLY LOSE; which I've strongly believed should have been implemented already. The opponents should not be responsible for turning in the slow player, it should be a function of the website. Make the website the parent to the delinquents.

Bonus thought: What if during this end-of-season wind-down, there's a fast-paced tournament in the respective game Arena that gives users the chance to pick up a lot of games at the end with the knowledge that it'll be fast-paced, and with the knowledge that tournament must be complete by the deadline? It'd be similar to playoffs in [insert your favorite sport]. That would be a lot of fun! It would give BGA an exit strategy to a season.

[Denis]

I'm disappointed to see this turn of events, particularly since I pretty much only play Arena on turn-based.

TOURNAMENTS
As an alternative for us turn-based players, how about updating Tournaments to support more than 2 players and support more games? Tournaments don't have the same problem as Arena since there is no end date. I would rather play Tournaments than Arena.

FOR ARENA - FORCED PLAY
To bring turn-based back to Arena, the first proposal - which is what Yucata does - to force play on your oldest Arena game is a good idea.

However, I do want to emphasize that Tournaments make a lot more sense for turn-based players.

[sourisdudesert]

Dear everyone.

Thanks a lot for your feedback, which help us a lot to identify solutions to make the turn-based Arena back.

Good news: based on your ideas, we managed to add some rules to turn turn-based Arena to - hopefully - prevent the cheaters to abuse Arena ranking system. The new rules are already in place, and the turn-based Arena is back.

New rules:

• For Arena turn-based game, for a given game, you are now forced to play on the table where it's your turn for the longest time. Example: if you have 2 Carcassonne games, you can't play on the game where it's you turn for 5 minutes before playing on the other one it's your turn for 5 hours.
• You cannot start a Arena realtime game if you have a turn based game with the same game in progress where it is your turn to play.
• At the end of the season, all turn based games will be stopped, and the player who consumed the most time will lost the game (all the opponents will be winners).

With these 3 new rules, we hope to solve all the cheating techniques described at the beginning of this thread. We also chose a solution that does not bring too much constraints on turn-based players.

This can obliviously evolve in the future, depending on what happened.

To conclude, we hope that all of this will show that we are taking these subjects (Arena, cheating, competition modes...) very seriously. We know that there is a lot of work still to be done on these subjects and that it does not evolve fast enough for many of you, but please be sure that we are working on it.

[zaynonymous]

Dear everyone.

Thanks a lot for your feedback, which help us a lot to identify solutions to make the turn-based Arena back.

Good news: based on your ideas, we managed to add some rules to turn turn-based Arena to - hopefully - prevent the cheaters to abuse Arena ranking system. The new rules are already in place, and the turn-based Arena is back.

New rules:

• For Arena turn-based game, for a given game, you are now forced to play on the table where it's your turn for the longest time. Example: if you have 2 Carcassonne games, you can't play on the game where it's you turn for 5 minutes before playing on the other one it's your turn for 5 hours.
• You cannot start a Arena realtime game if you have a turn based game with the same game in progress where it is your turn to play.
• At the end of the season, all turn based games will be stopped, and the player who consumed the most time will lost the game (all the opponents will be winners).

With these 3 new rules, we hope to solve all the cheating techniques described at the beginning of this thread. We also chose a solution that does not bring too much constraints on turn-based players.

This can obliviously evolve in the future, depending on what happened.

To conclude, we hope that all of this will show that we are taking these subjects (Arena, cheating, competition modes...) very seriously. We know that there is a lot of work still to be done on these subjects and that it does not evolve fast enough for many of you, but please be sure that we are working on it.

Thank you for the quick response and understanding!

[orei]

Dear everyone.

Thanks a lot for your feedback, which help us a lot to identify solutions to make the turn-based Arena back.

Good news: based on your ideas, we managed to add some rules to turn turn-based Arena to - hopefully - prevent the cheaters to abuse Arena ranking system. The new rules are already in place, and the turn-based Arena is back.

New rules:

• For Arena turn-based game, for a given game, you are now forced to play on the table where it's your turn for the longest time. Example: if you have 2 Carcassonne games, you can't play on the game where it's you turn for 5 minutes before playing on the other one it's your turn for 5 hours.
• You cannot start a Arena realtime game if you have a turn based game with the same game in progress where it is your turn to play.
• At the end of the season, all turn based games will be stopped, and the player who consumed the most time will lost the game (all the opponents will be winners).

With these 3 new rules, we hope to solve all the cheating techniques described at the beginning of this thread. We also chose a solution that does not bring too much constraints on turn-based players.

This can obliviously evolve in the future, depending on what happened.

To conclude, we hope that all of this will show that we are taking these subjects (Arena, cheating, competition modes...) very seriously. We know that there is a lot of work still to be done on these subjects and that it does not evolve fast enough for many of you, but please be sure that we are working on it.

Perfect! Better to have a system to be evolved than not-a-system.