Be inclusive by adding gender options and pronoun options

[merlin they them]

It's not politeness. What we consider polite is based on what society recognises. What you are calling "politeness" is something being forced onto people by the social pressure of a small group of people shoting loudly. That's really not polite at all.

There are two genders in biology...

Non-binary gender is not a biological reality, it's not recognised in law, our system of medicine doesn't see it as a real thing and society doesn't accept it...

...We have two pronouns for 99.9% of humanity but the 0.1% needs over 50. And they can take offence if you use the wrong one. And offence these days generally involves complaints and legal proceedings. For me this is like me deciding I'm a Duke because I feel that way and expecting everyone to address me as "Your grace" because I've decided that this is polite...

Your entire post is filled with nonsense arguments. Gender and sex are not the same thing and even sex is not binary like we thought. Neither gender nor sex needs to be recognized by the law as the law should be applied equally. There are many medical professionals who understand this and scientific papers to back up these claims.

As for your statements about narcissism and offence, you're dead wrong. We get offended when you use the wrong one intentionally, just like you might if I decided to keep calling you something when you have already told me not to. All we want is to be identified as who we are, which is no different than asking someone to pronounce a name correctly. And most of us are no more narcissistic than the rest of humanity. It is more narcissistic to keep denying people something so simple that has zero effect on you just because you don't like it.

Deciding to declare yourself a duke is not the same thing at all. Our gender is who we are. Being a duke has clear definition, gender does not.

Lastly, what I want is for the site and the games to use the pronouns in the various strings they use. This does not force you to use them, though you should out of courtesy. In most games I play, I almost never see chat used so it doesn't affect you any more than it already did.

Resources

• Genderbread Person
• Molecular Biologist on Sex as a Spectrum
• Psychologist on Gender

[Giordano Bruno 1974]

It's not politeness. What we consider polite is based on what society recognises. What you are calling "politeness" is something being forced onto people by the social pressure of a small group of people shoting loudly. That's really not polite at all.

There are two genders in biology...

Non-binary gender is not a biological reality, it's not recognised in law, our system of medicine doesn't see it as a real thing and society doesn't accept it...

...We have two pronouns for 99.9% of humanity but the 0.1% needs over 50. And they can take offence if you use the wrong one. And offence these days generally involves complaints and legal proceedings. For me this is like me deciding I'm a Duke because I feel that way and expecting everyone to address me as "Your grace" because I've decided that this is polite...

Your entire post is filled with nonsense arguments. Gender and sex are not the same thing and even sex is not binary like we thought. Neither gender nor sex needs to be recognized by the law as the law should be applied equally. There are many medical professionals who understand this and scientific papers to back up these claims.

As for your statements about narcissism and offence, you're dead wrong. We get offended when you use the wrong one intentionally, just like you might if I decided to keep calling you something when you have already told me not to. All we want is to be identified as who we are, which is no different than asking someone to pronounce a name correctly. And most of us are no more narcissistic than the rest of humanity. It is more narcissistic to keep denying people something so simple that has zero effect on you just because you don't like it.

Deciding to declare yourself a duke is not the same thing at all. Our gender is who we are. Being a duke has clear definition, gender does not.

Lastly, what I want is for the site and the games to use the pronouns in the various strings they use. This does not force you to use them, though you should out of courtesy. In most games I play, I almost never see chat used so it doesn't affect you any more than it already did.

Resources

• Genderbread Person
• Molecular Biologist on Sex as a Spectrum
• Psychologist on Gender

No, you demand to be called as you identify not as you are. Sex is defined by the state because there are some things which are gender restricted. Your legal sex is listed on many forms of ID such as your passport. Now what does it say there I wonder?

Linking to these kinds of papers is the equivalent of climate change deniers citing the one environmental scientist that shares their view and ignoring the 99.9% that don't. Medical science and biology just doesn't support this.

You and another poster stated that BGA *need* to adopt this, now there are some fixes that I would like but I don't tell BGA that they need to do what I tell them to. At the end of the day, it's their website not mine. I can request things but I can't demand them.

Now there are several petitions on this issue but none have more than 5 votes. I don't see why you have made another petition when you knew that more than one already existed. You linked to threads on this subject as evidence that there is interest in a change, some of these threads though were started by yourself and one has nothing to do with non-binary pronouns.

I don't see this getting adopted by the website as there is no co-ordinated policy on gendered pronouns to begin with and creating one would necessitate editing the 200 or so existing games. But if it does then it's best to do this client side so the rest of us don't get this imposed on us. Most people do not understand these pronouns and they are impossible to translate. Whereas you would get addressed in the way that you want. The only reason why this would not be an acceptable solution is a desire to impose your politics on others.

[Giordano Bruno 1974]

I agree that gender could be dealt with better on BGA, e.g. by using they/them/their for general text, and for players when they have not explicitely set a male or female gender in their profile.

Add Pronoun Options
Furthermore, BGA should also add pronoun options because not everyone uses the pronouns typically associated with the gender they choose. As such, BGA should add at least these options:

• She/her/hers
• They/them/theirs
• He/him/his
• Custom
  • Subject pronoun (she/they/he equivalent):
  • Object pronoun (her/them/him equivalent):
  • Possessive pronoun (hers/theirs/his equivalent):

Are there really people who want to use different genders for subject / object / possessive? I'm intrigued, could you say a bit more or provide links? This would indeed be complicated (among others because the problem's different in each language), so it needs to be explained and well-argued.

As for multiple languages, this could be handled the same way new words get handled and just use them as they are. Many languages will just use the word as it was in the original language in the middle of a sentence of the other language.

I don't think imposing English pronouns (and let's be honest, they are not even English) onto another language is remotely inclusive. This is very much cultural imperialism. How is anyone supposed to understand why there is a seemingly gibberish word in the middle of a sentence that doesn't even take the normal inflections for that language?

Language may borrow nouns, adjectives and sometimes even verbs but borrowing pronouns is an extremely rare event. I cannot think of any language that has borrowed a pronoun from English.

[Stick]

Yikes, that cowboy hat guy seems rather upset about something that literally doesn't affect him in any way whatsoever. I'm not going to argue with that, because he's not going to change his opinion from anything I say, no matter how many papers and other forms of education I could put in front of him. I will say though, there's probably thousands more names than there are pronouns, and no one seems to have much trouble respecting those, so...

Instead, I'll say that adding additional options for gender is a no-brainer. It seems easy to implement and has no down side that I can think of.

I do think acknowledging and respecting people's pronouns is important. Treat others how you want to be treated and all that, right? The one thing I'm curious about is how that would be implemented here? Like if we're talking UI and such, games don't tend to acknowledge people's genders but rather their names.

Are you talking about having the option in your profile so if people look at it and engage in conversation they know which ones to use? Again, not trying to be argumentative, just solution-oriented. At the end of the day, I want BGA and really any board game space to be as inclusive as possible.

[N_Faker]

Are you talking about having the option in your profile so if people look at it and engage in conversation they know which ones to use?

Who are you asking here?

[Stick]

Are you talking about having the option in your profile so if people look at it and engage in conversation they know which ones to use?

Who are you asking here?

OP, sorry.

Doing a little more looking around and I guess some games do use pronouns? If so, it seems like an easy addition to make more options.

[N_Faker]

Are you talking about having the option in your profile so if people look at it and engage in conversation they know which ones to use?

Who are you asking here?

OP, sorry.

Doing a little more looking around and I guess some games do use pronouns? If so, it seems like an easy addition to make more options.

Yikes, that cowboy hat guy seems rather upset about something that literally doesn't affect him in any way whatsoever.

You seem too unfamiliar with the site or what OP is proposing to claim that this "literally doesn't affect him in any way whatsoever".

[Giordano Bruno 1974]

Yikes, that cowboy hat guy seems rather upset about something that literally doesn't affect him in any way whatsoever. I'm not going to argue with that, because he's not going to change his opinion from anything I say, no matter how many papers and other forms of education I could put in front of him. I will say though, there's probably thousands more names than there are pronouns, and no one seems to have much trouble respecting those, so...

Instead, I'll say that adding additional options for gender is a no-brainer. It seems easy to implement and has no down side that I can think of.

I do think acknowledging and respecting people's pronouns is important. Treat others how you want to be treated and all that, right? The one thing I'm curious about is how that would be implemented here? Like if we're talking UI and such, games don't tend to acknowledge people's genders but rather their names.

Are you talking about having the option in your profile so if people look at it and engage in conversation they know which ones to use? Again, not trying to be argumentative, just solution-oriented. At the end of the day, I want BGA and really any board game space to be as inclusive as possible.

I have given you reasons as to how it effects other people negatively and how it is not inclusive.

You just ignored them and didn't address the points I made.

And I'm the stubborn one...

[Curling]

And the same for all languages?!!

Seems complicated. We are in a game website... Shouldn't be a subject here

If that's the case, then the gender options should be removed entirely and all games should only use the gender neutral "they/them/their"

That means that you deny I am a woman.

See... You are just funny

[juss100]

Am I missing the problem here? When has they/their ever not been an adequate genderfree alternative to his/her. "juss100 must take their turn" seems fine. No one is going to struggle to translate that. No-one is going to be offended. Where lies the issue?

I agree that society's obsession with our sex is ridiculous but also think that gender non conforming non binary people are probably even more obsessed with it. Just call people what they want to be called if it makes them happy. I tend to use people's names to their face. Move along.