new hanabi

[Jest Phulin]

Fact: Sourisdudesert has locked a number of discussion threads on the forums recently. This isn't the first and won't be the last.

Fact: As this is a site run by Sourisdudesert, he can pretty much do as he damn well pleases with regards to the information displayed. He and BGA (dunno if they are actually incorporated) are under no obligation to provide a place for people to spout whatever they want. If you want to exercise a freedom of speech, feel free to set up your own website to do so. In most western cultures you are free to say whatever you want, but you are not free to take over someone else's medium to disseminate that speech.


/rant. Sorry. I now return you to your regularly scheduled ranting about the change to Hanabi.

[Angiepandaa]

Then what's the point in having forums if people can't say how they feel. And thanks for ignoring my post. You will have a lot more angry people if all we do is lose points

[N_Faker]

And thanks for ignoring my post.

You are welcome.

[Recyclops]

That thread has been locked after 18+ pages of complaints.

Absolutely. Forum is not appropriate for this: who want to read 18+ pages to see what others are thinking?

Probably the people who comment for 18+ pages like to read it and/or contribute. It's a bit more accessible, visible, and a good place to have a discussion before doing anything formal like lodging a bug/suggestion.

[Cheery Dog]

They clearly don't read, most of the posts are acting like that they're the first one to have this complaint. Or the not quite perfect already existing ability to change that was mentioned.

[Tisaac]

They clearly don't read, most of the posts are acting like that they're the first one to have this complaint. Or the not quite perfect already existing ability to change that was mentioned.

Well that's another argument in favor of the bug/suggestion tracker !!
As a developper of a few games here, I can assure you it's really way way easier for us developper if you fill as mmuch bug/suggestion report as there are topic to talk about. Lastly, I'm almost always answering very long post with suggestions/complaints with a simple "please fill bug/suggestion report", as it has become a waste of time to answer each of them personally.
I get that everyone want to feel heard and understood, but you have to understand that reading/answering forum threads costs time during which developpers can't actually code. So feel free to post on forum and discuss with other people, but don't expect developpers to answer each of your posts.

[yodajacobs]

They clearly don't read, most of the posts are acting like that they're the first one to have this complaint. Or the not quite perfect already existing ability to change that was mentioned.

Well that's another argument in favor of the bug/suggestion tracker !!
As a developper of a few games here, I can assure you it's really way way easier for us developper if you fill as mmuch bug/suggestion report as there are topic to talk about. Lastly, I'm almost always answering very long post with suggestions/complaints with a simple "please fill bug/suggestion report", as it has become a waste of time to answer each of them personally.
I get that everyone want to feel heard and understood, but you have to understand that reading/answering forum threads costs time during which developpers can't actually code. So feel free to post on forum and discuss with other people, but don't expect developpers to answer each of your posts.

As a developer, I agree with you for the most part but...

There are some decisions which people dislike a lot which aren't exactly 'bugs' but are rather design decisions. An example from the current discussion is the clue-giving mechanism - the previous version vs the new version. Filing a 'bug' about the choice to change that doesn't feel like the best approach because the new mechanism was working as intended. Registering objections to those sorts of design decisions is worthwhile, but when the new mechanism is working as intended, it really isn't a 'bug' in my mind, so something like a forum seems a more appropriate venue.

I'm still waiting for the magic filter that lets me read only the worthwhile posts in such discussions. ; )

[Tisaac]

They clearly don't read, most of the posts are acting like that they're the first one to have this complaint. Or the not quite perfect already existing ability to change that was mentioned.

Well that's another argument in favor of the bug/suggestion tracker !!
As a developper of a few games here, I can assure you it's really way way easier for us developper if you fill as mmuch bug/suggestion report as there are topic to talk about. Lastly, I'm almost always answering very long post with suggestions/complaints with a simple "please fill bug/suggestion report", as it has become a waste of time to answer each of them personally.
I get that everyone want to feel heard and understood, but you have to understand that reading/answering forum threads costs time during which developpers can't actually code. So feel free to post on forum and discuss with other people, but don't expect developpers to answer each of your posts.

As a developer, I agree with you for the most part but...

There are some decisions which people dislike a lot which aren't exactly 'bugs' but are rather design decisions. An example from the current discussion is the clue-giving mechanism - the previous version vs the new version. Filing a 'bug' about the choice to change that doesn't feel like the best approach because the new mechanism was working as intended. Registering objections to those sorts of design decisions is worthwhile, but when the new mechanism is working as intended, it really isn't a 'bug' in my mind, so something like a forum seems a more appropriate venue.

I'm still waiting for the magic filter that lets me read only the worthwhile posts in such discussions. ; )

Well just create a suggestion report in this case ?? People can upvote if they agree, and give some more insights if they feel like they need to.
Again, keeping thing organized, whether it's bug or suggestion, is really the best way to make any progress.

[Ankeszu]

Tisaac - I'll be a bit offtopic, but for normal users Bugs/Suggesrtion reports are the last resort, and its UI highly discourages to do anything with them... (Feel free to move this post to separate topic if needed, this whole post is to mark WHY people don't like using bug reports in my view)

You can't enter bugs from the main site (you need to go though forum anyway, or other means maybe too), and even when you are in Bugs, it takes a lot of clicks and searching to find bugs related to a thing you want to; search in bugs works far worse than in Forum, for example despite knowing who made a bug report, I can't find it by his name. And people describe things in different ways, in different languages, sometimes plainly wrong in the title - so sometimes you won't even open such bug to upvote, because you think it doesnt concern you - I don't care for any frensh written bug titles as they mean nothing to me. So it is hard to get people to vote for bugs, unless you post them on the forum. So the forum needs to work again for being heard. Because if not upvoted for long, site closes the bugs automatically - making the more reports appear on the same thing...

When you are in Bugs you voted for, you can't go back to all bugs by a button. You can go by moving back browser page... if any of the previous pages was the all bugs page.

You can't conveniently sort through bugs you voted for nor check their status, the sorting works poorly and "More info" shows bugs you didn't vote for, and yeah, I filled a report on it, it was ignored for a long time (I tried to find it now to link - did I mention it's hard to find anything in the bugs? - I think it was this, but it looks like not only it have been stripped from the info I input, but marked "not updated" ... I don't see now any fields here, and yet I did fill these fields otherwise report won't go through the system: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=13617 *****In the source code there are still my words from the report fields, included below) I see also another person made a similar complaint: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=18233

(Person-specific complaint: the only way I get the notifs about bugs voted for is by mail, I dont see in preferences any other option. I check the mail typically on the phone from which I can't enter BGA forum - not everyone is as mobile as you assume Ergo, I know sth happens... But what exactly? On the website I don't have anywhere the notifications about bugs, and checking them manually is troublesome, because again, I HAVE TO FIND THEM FIRST. And it needs more steps than it should. It doesn't mean they should be notified at the same place where the current notifications are, it means there is lacking a place to see the bugs.)

You have to input blank info / repeated info because of unclear instructions when filling a report, see example: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=27773 ("N/A" - report forces into filling the field, despite all info has been given earlier)

To report on a game in general, you have to input table number anyway. We have two options for bugs: for website in general, and for the specific tables in the games. Obviously there is a big gap here - for game related bugs that doesn't concern a specific table; all game-related suggestions should fall under this. Sure, you can input whatever or irrelevant data as the table number, but the fact that report forces you to input data that are unnecessary, distracting and plainly wrong for the problem you mention - it doesn't make people fill the reports happily. It feels like a waste of time.

You can't also use formating in the bugs reports, which can make people miss important info.

And when they fill them anyway, so often it is closed with "not a bug" / "works for me" when the closing person misunderstood the topic (or, funnily, "its rather a suggestion so post it as a suggestion" https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=27693 - why not just continue to treat it as suggestion or change the clasification from bug to suggestion by admin, if the reason it needs to be done is... admins comment), and all our work to fill these ridiculous reports is thrown away.
Another misunderstanding example: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=27652 - "there is no misfire tokens in the new version". Answer, "not a bug, the picture shows the count". The bug didn't concern the picture, I know it marks the bomb count, but it is not a token, which IS a bug - in the design idea. When you want a game to resemble a "real life" one, but refuse to do it in one case. Such answer doesn't answer nor the literal problem ("no misfire token") nor the underlying issue that can be read between the lines ("hard to notice misfires"), and - forgive the sarcasm - it looks like dialogue "hey I feel bad about [something]" - "hey but the weather is nice". (This example bug reappeared quickly as https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=27773 )



* (Maybe vote if given a direct link, here on the forum, people vote. But votes - for Hanabi especially - for years looked like they were ignored, same as Sugestions such as https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=17208 despite months and a lot of votes - so players stopped believing in the fact that anybody reads them)

***** Okay my input is still inside the page source.
"I was browsing bugs I voted for, and I wanted to sort these bugs according to last update. So I clicked the arrow next to Last update and the page refreshed to... list of all bugs, sorted.
---
The bugs you voted for, path looks like this: boardgamearena.com/bugs?player=[playerid]
For me, boardgamearena.com/bugs?player=39342941
I played a bit with the web path and it looks like there is a proper page:
boardgamearena.com/bugs?sort=lastupdate_asc&player=39342941
just you can't access it intuitively from The bugs you voted for, but have to manipulate the address manually.
Its nothing crucial but can be corrected"

Code: Select all

           <div id="instructions_1" class="report_instruction" style="display:none;">
                            <ul><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Please copy/paste the error message you see on your screen, if applicable.</p>No error screen<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Please explain what you wanted to do, what you did and what happened</p>I was browsing bugs I voted for, and I wanted to sort these bugs according to last update. So I clicked the arrow next to Last update and the page refreshed to... list of all bugs, sorted.<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Which browser are you using?</p>Google Chrome v75<br/><br/><br/></li>
                        </div>
                        <div id="instructions_2" class="report_instruction" style="display:none;">
                            <ul><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use <a href='http://imgur.com' target='_blank'>Imgur.com</a> to upload it and copy/paste the link here.</p>No error screen<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Is this text available in the <a href='/translationhq' target='_blank'>translation system</a>? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?</p>I was browsing bugs I voted for, and I wanted to sort these bugs according to last update. So I clicked the arrow next to Last update and the page refreshed to... list of all bugs, sorted.<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Which browser are you using?</p>Google Chrome v75<br/><br/><br/></li>
                        </div>
                        <div id="instructions_3" class="report_instruction" style="display:none;">
                            <ul><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.</p>No error screen<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Which browser are you using?</p>Google Chrome v75<br/><br/><br/></li>
                        </div>
                        <div id="instructions_50" class="report_instruction" style="display:none;">
                            <ul><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; What was displayed on the screen when you were blocked (Blank screen? Part of the game interface? Error message?)</p>No error screen<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Which browser are you using?</p>Google Chrome v75<br/><br/><br/></li>
                        </div>
                        <div id="instructions_51" class="report_instruction" style="display:none;">
                            <ul><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Which part of the rules was not respected by the BGA adaptation</p>No error screen<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Is the rules violation visible on game replay? If yes, at which move number?</p>I was browsing bugs I voted for, and I wanted to sort these bugs according to last update. So I clicked the arrow next to Last update and the page refreshed to... list of all bugs, sorted.<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Which browser are you using?</p>Google Chrome v75<br/><br/><br/></li>
                        </div>
                        <div id="instructions_52" class="report_instruction" style="display:none;">
                            <ul><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Which was the game action you wanted to do?</p>No error screen<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; What did you try to do to trigger this game action?</p>I was browsing bugs I voted for, and I wanted to sort these bugs according to last update. So I clicked the arrow next to Last update and the page refreshed to... list of all bugs, sorted.<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; What happened when you tried to do this (error message, game status bar message, ...)?</p><br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Which browser are you using?</p>Google Chrome v75<br/><br/><br/></li>
                        </div>
                        <div id="instructions_53" class="report_instruction" style="display:none;">
                            <ul><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; At which step of the game did the problem occur (what was the current game instruction)?</p>No error screen<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; What happened when you tried to do this game action (error message, game status bar message, ...)?</p>I was browsing bugs I voted for, and I wanted to sort these bugs according to last update. So I clicked the arrow next to Last update and the page refreshed to... list of all bugs, sorted.<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Which browser are you using?</p>Google Chrome v75<br/><br/><br/></li>
                        </div>
                        <div id="instructions_54" class="report_instruction" style="display:none;">
                            <ul><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Please describe the display issue. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use <a href='http://imgur.com' target='_blank'>Imgur.com</a> to upload it and copy/paste the link here.</p>No error screen<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Which browser are you using?</p>Google Chrome v75<br/><br/><br/></li>
                        </div>
                        <div id="instructions_55" class="report_instruction" style="display:none;">
                            <ul><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Please copy/paste the text displayed in English instead of your language. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use <a href='http://imgur.com' target='_blank'>Imgur.com</a> to upload it and copy/paste the link here.</p>No error screen<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Is this text available in the <a href='/translationhq' target='_blank'>translation system</a>? If yes, has it been translated for more than 24 hours?</p>I was browsing bugs I voted for, and I wanted to sort these bugs according to last update. So I clicked the arrow next to Last update and the page refreshed to... list of all bugs, sorted.<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Which browser are you using?</p>Google Chrome v75<br/><br/><br/></li>
                        </div>
                        <div id="instructions_56" class="report_instruction" style="display:none;">
                            <ul><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Please explain your suggestion precisely and concisely so that it's as easy as possible to understand what you mean.</p>No error screen<br/><br/><br/></li><li><p style="font-style:italic;color:gray;margin-bottom:0.8em;">&bull; Which browser are you using?</p>Google Chrome v75<br/><br/><br/></li>
                        </div>
                </div>


            </div>
            

                
            <div class="reports_content pagesection" style="display:block">
                <h3>Report history</h3>
            
                    <div class="report_log ">
						<div class="report_log_delete" id="report_log_delete_40937" style="display: none"><i class="fa fa-close" aria-hidden="true"></i></div>
                        <i>09/30/2019 - 19:42</i> &bull; <a href="/player?id=39342941">Ankeszu</a> &bull; <i>Bug has not been reproduced by developers yet</i>:<br/>
                        <div class="report_log_text">The bugs you voted for, path looks like this: <a  rel="nofollow" href="https://boardgamearena.com/bugs?player=[playerid]">boardgamearena.com/bugs?player=[playerid]</a><br />
For me, <a  rel="nofollow" href="https://boardgamearena.com/bugs?player=39342941">boardgamearena.com/bugs?player=39342941</a><br />
<br />
I played a bit with the web path and it looks like there is a proper page:<br />
<a  rel="nofollow" href="https://boardgamearena.com/bugs?sort=lastupdate_asc&amp;player=39342941">boardgamearena.com/bugs?sort=lastupdate_asc&amp;player=39342941</a><br />
<br />
just you can't access it intuitively from The bugs you voted for, but have to manipulate the address manually.<br />
<br />
Its nothing crucial but can be corrected<br />
</div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="report_log developer">
						<div class="report_log_delete" id="report_log_delete_73935" style="display: none"><i class="fa fa-close" aria-hidden="true"></i></div>
                        <i>10/01/2020 - 12:16</i> &bull; <a href="/player?id=7">Sourisdudesert</a> &bull; <i>This report has been closed automatically because there was no vote/comment on it for a long time</i>:<br/>
                        <div class="report_log_text">Report closed automatically because it has not been upvoted or commented for a while.<br />
<br />
Your bug has probably been fixed already, or was linked to a temporary failure of BGA service.<br />
<br />
In any case, when filling a bug report, make sure to have an explicit title linked to the incident (ex: with error message), so other players can recognize it and vote for it.</div>
                    </div>

            </div>


            <div class="pagesection">
                <ul><li>Add to this report:
                        <div class="legend">Please add here anything that seems relevant in order to reproduce this bug or understand your suggestion:<br/><ul><li>Another table ID / move ID</li><li>Did F5 solve the problem?</li><li>Did the problem appear several times? Every time? Randomly?</li><li>If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use <a href='http://imgur.com' target='_blank'>Imgur.com</a> to upload it and copy/paste the link here.</li></ul></div>
                
                </li></ul>
                <textarea id="report_log"></textarea>
                
            </div>


            <br/>

[Tisaac]

You can't enter bugs from the main site (you need to go though forum anyway, or other means maybe too), and even when you are in Bugs, it takes a lot of clicks and searching to find bugs related to a thing you want to; search in bugs works far worse than in Forum, for example despite knowing who made a bug report, I can't find it by his name. And people describe things in different ways, in different languages, sometimes plainly wrong in the title - so sometimes you won't even open such bug to upvote, because you think it doesnt concern you - I don't care for any frensh written bug titles as they mean nothing to me. So it is hard to get people to vote for bugs, unless you post them on the forum. So the forum needs to work again for being heard. Because if not upvoted for long, site closes the bugs automatically - making the more reports appear on the same thing...

When you are in Bugs you voted for, you can't go back to all bugs by a button. You can go by moving back browser page... if any of the previous pages was the all bugs page.

You can go on the bugs page simply by clicking community (or whatever it is in english) > bugs. You can then filter by game name which give you a direct url like that : https://boardgamearena.com/bugs?game=1015 Once on a bug, you can go back to the list of bug specific to the game with the arrow on top : "< all the reports" and "< Hanabir reports". There is no such thing as automated closing when not upvoted for long. If you really have a bug in your game, don't worry people will find it and upvote it. You might get a few duplicate but there is always one that stands out, which is even more true if people create one bug/report for each bug/suggestioin (which is what I'm saying over and over to all the testers). Moreover, if that's a duplicate, I usually give the bug number of the original one so that the player can them upvote it instead, helping having only one report for each bug.

I agree that the notifications system could be greatly improved, and that there is no easy way to have a quick look at the bug you created/upvoted.

About the "not a bug / works for me", please don't generalize what's happening on a specific game. Each game has a different developper, so simply because you had bad experience with reporting bug on one game does not means you shouldn't use bug reports on other games. As developper, we can't actually turn a bug report into a suggestion, so that's why we are asking to open a suggestion instead (and you can copy/paste the content, it's not lost).

Again, please recall that most devs are volonteers who may had some times at some point to developp the game but then probably stopped maintening it for personnal reason.