Be inclusive by adding gender options and pronoun options

[Giordano Bruno 1974]

I'm an atheist and don't believe society should accept God as a real thing. There's a whole lot of ways that religious thinking is problematic for society but at the same time I think we should live graciously and pleasantly side by side if possible - I even try and take interest in the inner struggles of Christians, Jews, Muslims etc because they aren't necessarily awful people for wanting a different society to me.

But that's your choice. You'd probably feel rather different if you were forced to take an interest in their feelings. As it is, you probably just have a couple of friends or family members that are religious, not exactly unusual.

Great, I'll let her know that she shouldn't be concerned about having her achievements and status acknowledged and being treated as inferior to men, yet again, because some bloke who doesn't even have a PhD on the internet said he wouldn't be bothered .

No need to start an argument here. I'm not "the enemy". My ex-wife was a medical doctor. My bank never made a problem over her title. I just don't personally find the whole doctor title business to be worth getting upset over. Neither did my ex. It only really matters at work.

[juss100]

But that's your choice. You'd probably feel rather different if you were forced to take an interest in their feelings. As it is, you probably just have a couple of friends or family members that are religious, not exactly unusual.

So the question really goes back to whether this is somehow intrusive on your life and you're being "forced" into doing things and adopting an ideology against your will. When I was raised, whilst I wouldn't say it was oppressive, Christianity very much was the accepted "you believe this and do religious stuff and you get no say" and it was the norm in my society and yes I did kick against it ... successfully ... because our culture is in the process of going increasingly secular anyway (this was about 20 years before the Dawkins boom though). To the extent that certain ideologies might or might not be being forced upon us, well ... yes I agree with you then kickback is perhaps in order also. Someone's request to be included because they believe something, though, is hardly shoving it down your throat.

No need to start an argument here. I'm not "the enemy". My ex-wife was a medical doctor. My bank never made a problem over her title. I just don't personally find the whole doctor title business to be worth getting upset over. Neither did my ex. It only really matters at work.

I think a little sarcasm was warranted there. My point was - people don't all think the same as you do. But no I don't want a nasty argument, you've been perfectly respectful

[nairobiny]

Well, I'm glad peace has broken out. But what do people propose we do?

Let's imagine Sage, a non-binary person who wishes to have the pronouns 'xe' and 'xir'. Xe puts 'non-binary' on BGA's shiny new option system and 'xe' and 'xir' into the new pronoun options. And imagine a status message that is currently '$PlayerName plays a card from $pronoun_possessive hand'.

For people who currently state 'Male', $pronoun_possessive is 'his'. For those who put 'Female', it is 'her'. Currently, if you put neither I think some games put 'his' and some put 'their'.

Problems:

1. What should be displayed for this status message in respect of Sage on other players' screens?

Possible answers:
(a) "their"
(b) "xir"
(c) "his"
(d) "his/her"
(e) something else.

Answer (c) is historically what you put when you didn't know someone's gender. Up until fairly recently, (d) might have been used, and (a) was also becoming more accepted.

Perhaps (b) is gaining in popularity. But some people, particularly older people or people who want to play in English but whose native language is something else, may not recognise 'xir'. Is it right or fair to risk confusing them because Sage says so?

And what if some prankster puts, say, 'you/your' as their custom pronouns? That might be very confusing to other players.

My gut feel is that there's no answer to 1 that will ever satisfy everyone, so maybe doing nothing - although clearly flawed - is better than spending a lot of time doing something that still won't make everyone happy.

2. What do we display for this status message in respect of Sage in other languages?

Possible answers:
(a) Forget about it in other languages.
(b) Ask for custom pronouns in every other language.

Both the answers to 2 seem pretty bad... can anyone do better?

[juss100]

Well, I'm glad peace has broken out. But what do people propose we do?

Let's imagine Sage, a non-binary person who wishes to have the pronouns 'xe' and 'xir'. Xe puts 'non-binary' on BGA's shiny new option system and 'xe' and 'xir' into the new pronoun options. And imagine a status message that is currently '$PlayerName plays a card from $pronoun_possessive hand'.

For people who currently state 'Male', $pronoun_possessive is 'his'. For those who put 'Female', it is 'her'. Currently, if you put neither I think some games put 'his' and some put 'their'.

Problems:

1. What should be displayed for this status message in respect of Sage on other players' screens?

Possible answers:
(a) "their"
(b) "xir"
(c) "his"
(d) "his/her"
(e) something else.

Answer (c) is historically what you put when you didn't know someone's gender. Up until fairly recently, (d) might have been used, and (a) was also becoming more accepted.

Perhaps (b) is gaining in popularity. But some people, particularly older people or people who want to play in English but whose native language is something else, may not recognise 'xir'. Is it right or fair to risk confusing them because Sage says so?

And what if some prankster puts, say, 'you/your' as their custom pronouns? That might be very confusing to other players.

My gut feel is that there's no answer to 1 that will ever satisfy everyone, so maybe doing nothing - although clearly flawed - is better than spending a lot of time doing something that still won't make everyone happy.

2. What do we display for this status message in respect of Sage in other languages?

Possible answers:
(a) Forget about it in other languages.
(b) Ask for custom pronouns in every other language.

Both the answers to 2 seem pretty bad... can anyone do better?

If it's English you're talking about then (a) is absolutely the correct and perfectly good option. Any reasonable gender non conforming person would be happy with that, and certainly I, as someone who thinks that "his" is an antiquated patriarchal default, would also be happy with that. As for other languages then I have no clue...

[estroncio]

he pron.

1. the male person or animal being discussed or last mentioned;
that male:Where did that man go? He's in the back of the room.

2. anyone (without reference to the person's sex);
that person:He who hesitates is lost.

Hope nobody spends time on this issue when there are issues that affect ALL the players and not 0.5% of native English speakers.

[Stewen]

What was missing was for the "Inclusives" to come and ruin the experience and the great community that was generated in this great place, just because a bunch of hateful people demanded it through "blows".

Apart from the fact that those who really think give weighty arguments, but the "inclusive" ones think that by crying they can do whatever they want. And we, the ones who really come to play for fun, hardly communicate with the other players but if we have to (I at least) don't notice if it's a man or a woman or an Apache helicopter, and I use a really "neutral" language.

[Giordano Bruno 1974]

What was missing was for the "Inclusives" to come and ruin the experience and the great community that was generated in this great place, just because a bunch of hateful people demanded it through "blows".

Apart from the fact that those who really think give weighty arguments, but the "inclusive" ones think that by crying they can do whatever they want. And we, the ones who really come to play for fun, hardly communicate with the other players but if we have to (I at least) don't notice if it's a man or a woman or an Apache helicopter, and I use a really "neutral" language.

This was pretty annoying but someone managed to top it by demanding that a game be deleted and committees formed to nominate other games for deletion because they offended his / her sense of social justice.

[rutra1992]

What was missing was for the "Inclusives" to come and ruin the experience and the great community that was generated in this great place, just because a bunch of hateful people demanded it through "blows".

Apart from the fact that those who really think give weighty arguments, but the "inclusive" ones think that by crying they can do whatever they want. And we, the ones who really come to play for fun, hardly communicate with the other players but if we have to (I at least) don't notice if it's a man or a woman or an Apache helicopter, and I use a really "neutral" language.

This was pretty annoying but someone managed to top it by demanding that a game be deleted and committees formed to nominate other games for deletion because they offended his / her sense of social justice.

Can you give a link to that suggestion?

[Smeg]

What was missing was for the "Inclusives" to come and ruin the experience and the great community that was generated in this great place, just because a bunch of hateful people demanded it through "blows".

Apart from the fact that those who really think give weighty arguments, but the "inclusive" ones think that by crying they can do whatever they want. And we, the ones who really come to play for fun, hardly communicate with the other players but if we have to (I at least) don't notice if it's a man or a woman or an Apache helicopter, and I use a really "neutral" language.

This was pretty annoying but someone managed to top it by demanding that a game be deleted and committees formed to nominate other games for deletion because they offended his / her sense of social justice.

Can you give a link to that suggestion?

https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewto ... =3&t=18303

Go woke, go broke. It never ends well, respond to one demand and more will undoubtly follow until we're all walking on eggshells to not upset the 0.01%.

Not even safe from it on a board game site.

[xobxela]

"her / his / their" sounds like a reasonable list of pronouns to me