Anonymise players for competitive modes: tournaments and arena

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NoLuckAndNoSkill
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Joined: 22 July 2020, 04:11

Re: Anonymise players for competitive modes: tournaments and arena

Post by NoLuckAndNoSkill »

Honestly I think ufm has proven their point. Personally I'm going to have to agree with them.

At first I was kind of agreeing with the option of anonymising players, but after reading this thread perhaps it's not the best idea.
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Wonderful Plays
Posts: 247
Joined: 20 September 2018, 13:06

Re: Anonymise players for competitive modes: tournaments and arena

Post by Wonderful Plays »

ufm wrote: 14 December 2020, 13:01 So you are not willing to establish any logic while willing to create a smurf?
You are constantly trying to ad personam degrade me to make your point, but when I point to clear logical faults in your texts, you conviently dodge them. :D
It is called 'metagaming', not kingmaking.
I'm not sure what you mean here, please explain, because for me it has nothing to do with metagaming.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming


Where you did find 'a lot of people from the top' then? Random table chats?
Yes, exactly random table/discord chat.
Now you're appealing to authority, and ad hominem as a bonus.
At this point this is not even a proper debate. I'm out.
Pointing logic flaws in your text failed, you dodge the questions, I'm trying different stuff. Maybe if you don't play those games you are not really the person that should be discussing this?
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Wonderful Plays
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Joined: 20 September 2018, 13:06

Re: Anonymise players for competitive modes: tournaments and arena

Post by Wonderful Plays »

Ok another post for proof to fully convince.

Proof A.

I asked every high ranked 7 wonders player I know for smurf account name and checked winrate for smurf vs normal.
Results:
1. 86% smurf vs 81% normal
2. 83% smurf vs 80% normal
3. 84% smurf vs 78% normal
4. 78% smurf vs 75% normal
5. 76% smurf vs 68% normal
6. 73% smurf vs 72% normal
7. 78% smurf vs 76% normal

I can't write the name of the smurfs and accounts, because people might not want to be linked, because of the problem of anonimity. Sample is pretty small but it's clearly in favor of the smurf play, which is pretty sad. I am honestly shocked by the results. I didn't want it to be that bad. I'll add more samples when I get them.

Proof B.

Let's do this mathy style. This will obviously not be proper mathematic proof, but let me remind you that truthful statemates are not necceseraily provable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6de ... s_theorems

We have a game, where 3 player enter with an rating of X,Y,Z, where X>Y>Z.
In a game there are possible moves that can be taken against other players.
Let's say player Z is presented with a choice of either hurting player X or Y. Currently leading is player Y, by 2 points out of possible 50-60 to gather in a game.
What would be the correct play?
Should the rating of the player be ever a clue that (s)he should play against player X? Should (s)he always play against player Y, because he is currently winning? If (s)he plays against player X why is X being punished by his/her good rating?

Now let's look at the end of the game. Let's say both Y & Z decide to play against player X, because they thought that his/her experience is threating to enough to decide to do these measures.
Let's look at two outcomes:

1. Player Y is first, player Z is second.
Can this be considered collusion? Should you make enough friends on the ladder that you both play against the third guy?
More importantly Player X is going down the ratings. This is one of the reason any of the top stats that ufm is looking at is meaningless, because the data might be skewed and you are not talking this into account.

2. Player Y or Z is first, X is second, the other of the Y/Z is first.
This is a scenario where one of the Y/Z sacrificed too much. In this scenario X is still loosing equal points as he is gaining for a win on the ladder. Essentially still a loss, where one of the other players suicided. Do we really want to take chances with this kind of behavior for a competitive mode, which arena should be?

I can go on and on honestly and put example from the gameplay, where using domain knowledge about the game I can pinpoint where players make those decision and what impact they have. However this will take a lot of time. I'm willing to do that if the admins ask for it for condiserding this feature, as it would really make competitive scene here better. Thankfully we still have tournaments where the tanking/suiciding is much less impactful.

Thank you for reading and I hope you'll try to understand my whole point instead of trying to find the smallest crack/inconsistiency and running with it.
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Wonderful Plays
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Joined: 20 September 2018, 13:06

Re: Anonymise players for competitive modes: tournaments and arena

Post by Wonderful Plays »

I don't see any polemics with my finding so I made an official suggestion, which you can upvote:
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=30119
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Wonderful Plays
Posts: 247
Joined: 20 September 2018, 13:06

Re: Anonymise players for competitive modes: tournaments and arena

Post by Wonderful Plays »

I made a video where I share my thoughts on those topics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRQ_rRukeeM
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Syl20rrr
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Joined: 24 April 2015, 22:34

Re: Anonymise players for competitive modes: tournaments and arena

Post by Syl20rrr »

First i'd like to mention i really enjoy your videos as well as your spirit for improvement.
I voted for the peak scoring idea for all the good reasons explained and must confess i am also parking to stay in top 30 ranking.

I disagree with anonymisation for the following reason: i am playing 7W in a chess-mode spirit.
Indeed, i seldom play live arena games because i enjoy thinking more deeply and construct my strategy over the full age, as well as gathering as much information as i can. This takes time and needs assumption of what the other players will do. Sometimes, i have to draw trees of decisions...
Therefore, i am definitively a turn-by-turn player.

Gathering information, i always begin an arena game by having a look at my opponents stats and get notes of their style: do thay have an heavy strategy like mad-scientist, mad army, grey ressource grabber... Also, my opponents are obviously also turn-by-turn players so i can go and see some of their actual or past games to see their choices: this can be very helpfull to feel how the player will act during the game and can of course impact my own play accordingly.

Knowing the ranking of your opponents is also interesting when you can check if it's real (are they new promising players raising in the ranking or long time player having reached its equity ranking?) and can also give clues about the kind of play i can expect from them (like discarding my ressources).

Finally, i understand i do not represent the majority of 7W Elite players but in my case anonymising would get all this interesting part of the game out.
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Wonderful Plays
Posts: 247
Joined: 20 September 2018, 13:06

Re: Anonymise players for competitive modes: tournaments and arena

Post by Wonderful Plays »

This is a point which I disagree with, but I can totally understand your opinion here.

For me that level of preparation is reserved for tournaments and direct competition, not public ladder, but I understand that you enjoy this aspect.
I can also clearly see that peak suggestion is getting much more support than anonimisation and we should propably just try with peak first.
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