The state of 3p Arena

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Wonderful Plays
Posts: 247
Joined: 20 September 2018, 13:06

Re: The state of 3p Arena

Post by Wonderful Plays »

6element wrote: 09 January 2021, 14:48 Well, I strongly disagree on both points (balance and graphics).
I would be really curious to hear your arguments as you are one of the most experienced players.

Here is mine:

New edition pros:
1. No double gray resources on 3rd stage for A sides of gray wonders

2. Buff to blue resulting in much less "dead" picks age1. Know from almost every hand there will be something playable and it's up to the player to make the most of it.

3. Altar chaining into Pantheon prevents gray blockades. You really can play without the access to the whole set if you know what you are doing. This increases strategic options.

4. 1st wonder stage is harder to build for every wonder now (can't be achieved with 1 card anymore) which results in players generally playing better, by leaving space for it age 2. This has lead the players into 2 wonder stages age2, and the final for the last card. This has always been the strongest way to play in general, now this is more natural. But of course there are exceptions: taking risk by building all the way. Getting access to neccesary stuff age1 and building it to prevent crucial green etc. The green prevention is best done age2 not age1 so this also plays into less mad greens that frustrate everyone.

5. Buff to blue has lead to green being a viable strat for all wonders for 3 player. Before it was just PLAY RED (as evidenced by Pistolero guide and the results on the very top of the ladder), with minor exceptions.

6. Introduction of Ludus for 5+ player games made them more strategic.

7. There is less doubles and triples for 6+ player games which makes them less random.

8. Removal of strategist guild makes red much less obnoxious in 3p & 4p, but also on higher player count. This was often very easy 8+ points for already strongest strategy.

9. Introduction of Decorators guild provides a small, but nice incentive to build your wonder all the way. Which is especially important for fighting Hali B.

10. Builders guild cost and Spies guild cost reduction make a lot of sense.

11. This can be seen both ways but IMO introducing another red in 4p to make it 5 different ones is for the better. There is less random you can't catch up and more planning with red.

12. Ephesos generally got cleaned up and offers a very nice strategic alternative on the A side. It has been scoring significantly better for me for 3 Player top arena, which is always nice to see diversity of sides.

13. Alexandria is a side that got nerfed, but maybe a little too hard, however it's still within reasonable numbers. This was neccessary, because of expansions. Why I'm listing this as a plus? Because you no longer play Alex in one of two ways, but have to actually think about your resource base A LOT.

14. Halikarnassos got cleaned up on the A side, B side got a small (not enough) nerf. But it's still better than the old edition, where this wonder would just take over games on all player counts regardless of the cards it was dealt. And new day side is quite balanced.

15. Babylon got buffed on both sides and they are very playable on all player counts.

16. Giza got a nice buff on the A. And soft buffs for the B side. Previously the weakest wonder in the 3p now is very competitive.

17. Olympia B stopped being random copy guild meme and is actually one of the most interesting wonders.

New edition cons:

1. Halikarnassos B still too strong, but weaker than before
2. No buff to Rhodos A, which it desperatly needed.
3. Olympia being a little too weak for comfort in 3p, but some wonder will always be the worst.
4. We could have seen a nerf to carravansery.

I'm really looking forward to hearing your arguments.
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6element
Posts: 187
Joined: 26 July 2018, 10:15

Re: The state of 3p Arena

Post by 6element »

We are getting offtopic, so I want to restate my original point:
- people have different preferences, some prefer classic edition, some prefer new edition. For example, many of the things you listed as pros are very strong cons in my opinion.
- if we / BGA considers changes as minor or mostly cosmetic, there should be a choice for a table starter.
- if BGA considers changes as major, then a good option is to introduce 7 Wonders classic Edition either as a permanent different entry in the list of games, or as a seasonal option (like 3/4 player).

Otherwise, BGA forces people to play the edition they dislike, or lose some players completely (speaking of player base fragmentation). For example, I don't like new edition and don't play Arena for the listed above reasons, forced new edition is #1. I'm sure Arena is fine without me, and I happily play non-Arena games, but it can be an indication of a bigger problem.
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Wonderful Plays
Posts: 247
Joined: 20 September 2018, 13:06

Re: The state of 3p Arena

Post by Wonderful Plays »

As someone who started this conversation I don't feel this is offtopic at all.
My goals have always been simple: more people playing, more people being happy playing, ability to compete reguraly against best players.

You providing explanation to why you think old edition is better lets us understand your position and think about solutions for the future.
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