I agree, its unfair that playing against 1 player who is average is better for your elo than playing against more better players.
We can’t possibly compete on ELO against 2-player games.
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Rosannedebeste
- Posts: 1
- Joined: 24 June 2020, 09:30
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Waterlily blooms
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 18 January 2021, 21:37
Re: We can’t possibly compete on ELO against 2-player games.
Agree with Wreckage. The suggestion of Demonlord of separate ELO rankings depending on amount of players could solve some of the issues, although it might get complicated when you play on varying tables.
What I wonder is, if you play a 2-player game, the chances of winning an even game are 50%, for a 5-player game they are 20%.
If an "expert"-player plays against an "apprentice" in a 2-player game, the chances of winning of the expert are far above 50%. Surely the difficulty of winning a game should be taken into account for ELO calculations? Then, winning a 5-player game should give the winner more ELO than a 2-player game with the same level of players.
So, why is it then possible to accumulate so many ELO in 2-player games? (And in the example of Wreckage, in so few 2-player games).
What I wonder is, if you play a 2-player game, the chances of winning an even game are 50%, for a 5-player game they are 20%.
If an "expert"-player plays against an "apprentice" in a 2-player game, the chances of winning of the expert are far above 50%. Surely the difficulty of winning a game should be taken into account for ELO calculations? Then, winning a 5-player game should give the winner more ELO than a 2-player game with the same level of players.
So, why is it then possible to accumulate so many ELO in 2-player games? (And in the example of Wreckage, in so few 2-player games).
Re: We can’t possibly compete on ELO against 2-player games.
ELO is broken in all games. Personally, I like to use it as a clue of playing with similar level players, but I don't really care that much, because well, it's broken and doesn't always talk about real level.
Saying that, what stated here is a fact, and hard wins in multiplayer are much less rewarded than a subpar 1vs1 win, in every game I've played. I really never got why winning against more players rewards less than winning against just one player, moreso with a high difference in ELO. Doesn't make sense for me. Strangely, in pure 1vs1 games, the ELO gain is pretty low when the difference is very high (Dragonheart for example), as it should be, and if you are into ELO farming, you must play against decent players at least.
But the most shocking thing for me is discovering people play 6 nimmt 1vs1. I mean, is it even fun at all? I will never get why play just for the sake of getting ELO, twisting game essence to that extent.
Saying that, what stated here is a fact, and hard wins in multiplayer are much less rewarded than a subpar 1vs1 win, in every game I've played. I really never got why winning against more players rewards less than winning against just one player, moreso with a high difference in ELO. Doesn't make sense for me. Strangely, in pure 1vs1 games, the ELO gain is pretty low when the difference is very high (Dragonheart for example), as it should be, and if you are into ELO farming, you must play against decent players at least.
But the most shocking thing for me is discovering people play 6 nimmt 1vs1. I mean, is it even fun at all? I will never get why play just for the sake of getting ELO, twisting game essence to that extent.
Re: We can’t possibly compete on ELO against 2-player games.
Strong stats here. Everything is said.
Who would disagree with that?
It's been years like that.
Please staf, do something
Who would disagree with that?
It's been years like that.
Please staf, do something
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dschingis27
- Posts: 744
- Joined: 27 June 2015, 18:30
Re: We can’t possibly compete on ELO against 2-player games.
Wow, this is a thread in the BGA suggestions forum that got 14 posts in a few hours on a monday evening, 7 of them first-time forum posters.
Ok... Sure...
Ok... Sure...
Re: We can’t possibly compete on ELO against 2-player games.
Wreck.
What else can I say, I absolutely agree to all that has been said here.
7WDuel is a different game than 7W. Therefore the ELO is different.
So should be the 5TacPro variant and the 1v1 variant of this game. Nothing in common.
We have a strong community of players playing the TacPro variants.
Now, we have implemented a proper regular circuit, and we have tested new formats, and players do adhere to these aspects of the game.
I will of course advocate and push for a more adapted reform of the ELO attribution!
As a regular strong chess player myself, I am very used to the ELO systems in practice worldwide.
It is a nice idea to allow us to have an equivalent in BGA. So far, it has been an excellent tool.
But let's bring it to a new level and open a new era, stop assimilating the 5TacPro and 1v1.
BGA : Help us keep the members of our community focused on the better aspects of this wonderful game, give more power to the communities who take risks and less to the lone wolves.
What else can I say, I absolutely agree to all that has been said here.
7WDuel is a different game than 7W. Therefore the ELO is different.
So should be the 5TacPro variant and the 1v1 variant of this game. Nothing in common.
We have a strong community of players playing the TacPro variants.
Now, we have implemented a proper regular circuit, and we have tested new formats, and players do adhere to these aspects of the game.
I will of course advocate and push for a more adapted reform of the ELO attribution!
As a regular strong chess player myself, I am very used to the ELO systems in practice worldwide.
It is a nice idea to allow us to have an equivalent in BGA. So far, it has been an excellent tool.
But let's bring it to a new level and open a new era, stop assimilating the 5TacPro and 1v1.
BGA : Help us keep the members of our community focused on the better aspects of this wonderful game, give more power to the communities who take risks and less to the lone wolves.
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Lena the Great
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 22 May 2018, 20:10
Re: We can’t possibly compete on ELO against 2-player games.
Im not a specially strong player, tend to do a rollercoaster downhill from time to time but I also agree with Wreckage that it's not fair.
Re: We can’t possibly compete on ELO against 2-player games.
I agree with you
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Tigress-Altaica
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 10 April 2020, 21:21
Re: We can’t possibly compete on ELO against 2-player games.
I agree with Wreckage's post, and I like MrPopo's suggestion to have games with fewer than 4 players automatically be set not to count for ELO. The spirit of 6 Nimmt! is to have a group of players playing, not just 2 or 3 people, so it makes sense to me that ELO should only be gained (or lost) when people are playing in the spirit of the game. For handling games with fewer than 4 players, it might not be practical to have them set to Training Mode, since people might want to play them with a time limit, but perhaps it would be possible to change the calculations for ELO from them to always give players +0 ELO, or otherwise not affect ELO. Thank you for any adjustments you can make to these ends!
Re: We can’t possibly compete on ELO against 2-player games.
Excellent research Wreckage! 100% correct. It's a flaw, but also the reason I don't get too hung up on ELO. I'm certainly not opposed to them fixing the problem.
With that said, if players have to do something as dreadfully boring as 1v1 6nimmt to pump their ELO so they feel good about themselves, I think it says more about them than those of us looking to have fun playing (while hopefully raising our ELO in the process).
With that said, if players have to do something as dreadfully boring as 1v1 6nimmt to pump their ELO so they feel good about themselves, I think it says more about them than those of us looking to have fun playing (while hopefully raising our ELO in the process).