Agricola Arena setting: back to previous format

[sourisdudesert]

Hi,

Following the votes of the Agricola's Gurus, we changed the Arena setting yesterday (enabling "extra spaces").

This proposition was the one who gathered the most votes in the Gurus group, so we just followed the majority.

However, following your feedback, we decided to make an exception here and to revert the setting to the previous one ("no extra space").

The reasons are the following:

• We are still learning (like you) about the Guru feature. It worked very well for most games, but Agricola has been released too recently to get an active Gurus community.
• The vote was tight (+4 for the change / +3 against the change) and controversial.
• We are in the middle of a season, so change is not welcome.

However, we strongly encourage most active players of Agricola to propose again this change, and to vote for or against it. In the next season, if this change is voted again by a majority of players, it will become the new Arena format for Agricola.

[Ranior]

Thanks so much for listening to feedback in this case, and I think this is the right call. Great decision, kudos for making it and following up with a clear explanation and posting in all the relevant places. I know I and others sometimes ask a lot of BGA admins especially as you continue to add dozens more games to watch over, so a sincere thanks for handling this well.


I strongly agree that future seasons should be left up to guru voting and following where things may go. I personally will still hope the community votes against extra action spaces, but my main complaint was that the switch happened "mid" season and without a ton of time for feedback or discussion in Agricola's case. I'm hoping this holds for future releases as well--you have plenty of games in alpha and beta, this may be a good lesson to not change any settings until a game has truly had a full season.

Finally, a plea to those gurus who can vote in the future: While I personally would prefer to see arena just never have extra action spaces, I get some really do like them. I think the best compromise here may be what Terra Mystica does with the landscapes option: It alternates between seasons. I think that would be reasonable here--run every odd numbered season without extra action spaces, run every even season with the extra action spaces.

[ufm]

I agree this being a right call. Changing options mid-season is not so preferable.

Finally, a plea to those gurus who can vote in the future: While I personally would prefer to see arena just never have extra action spaces, I get some really do like them. I think the best compromise here may be what Terra Mystica does with the landscapes option: It alternates between seasons. I think that would be reasonable here--run every odd numbered season without extra action spaces, run every even season with the extra action spaces.

'Free choice', which allows the players to choose the option in question is also a possible setting.

[Wonderboat]

While I do respect those who enjoy the Additional Space, I do see it as outside the norm, and the seasoned Agricola players who have played this game for years and years all play without additional spaces.

I myself think the game functions a lot better without it, especially as the game goes forward with new cards. For me, and some others, it's a deal-breaker. I won't be playing Arena if additional spaces are on - plain and simple. It really takes away a lot from fighting to grow your family, and also makes it very easy to pick up and animals and emergency feed yourself, meaning it's harder to food block someone, so there's less tactics.

Please Gurus, choose no additional action spaces in the future. Most people who made tables in the past would choose no additional action spaces. It will be healthier for the majority of the Agricola community, and we all want this game to thrive and continue being an extremely successful game on BGA.

Choosing in the settings whether you want to search for an Arena game with or without Additional Spaces would be a great option to make everyone happy. Alternating each season is not a great solution because you make a huge fraction of the player base unhappy for several months.

Edit: Well I guess you would want there to be seperate leaderboards for both in that case, so maybe that's not a great solution afterall.
Can we just leave Additional Action Spaces for custom games only? That's how it feels like it should belong, considering it's not even part of the main game board. It's an optional add-on not a defacto setting.

Thank you very much BGA admins and the Agricola developers!

[Carrarin]

I played for years without additional spaces and I think the game is perfectly balanced. Every change you make in the table you are creating a different game.

So.. in my opinion the Arena has to be without additional spaces.. When more cards will arrive, the game will became less boring and there will be no needing to change the table settings..

Thanks to the developers by the way!

Luca

[Lawton]

Thanks guys, I think this was a good decision. If the playerbase is split on the subject of additional spaces hopefully we can establish some kind of reasonable rotation

[WelshGandalf]

I wouldn't have played Arena had there been additional spaces. I've been playing the original for a decade without it, and it does the change game quite substantially. Thanks for making the change.

[torvaldur_makan]

Thank you. I was quite surprised to see the Additional action space in the Arena game I started.

Agricola is a different game with this option enabled. A game I'm personally not interested in playing...

[-daniel-]

Thanks for the change. Really appreciate that you listen to feedback. I personally won't be playing any arena if additional action spaces are turned on. The first arena game with additional action spaces was so jarring that me and anther player convinced the table to abandon the game.

[Castanova]

Agreed with everyone here.

Gurus and future Gurus: additional spaces is a variant and it changes the game too completely to be seriously considered for Arena. It turns a tactical game with multiple routes to victory into a game of maxing out your family as quickly as possible with far less player interaction.

It should be kept to regular games, not Arena.