Reputation wins

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PC8T
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Joined: 24 July 2020, 23:48

Reputation wins

Post by PC8T »

Just a question from my side about the reputation wins.

Do we consider it to be fairplay if:

BGA has disconnect/connect issues all the time (server side) that influence game timers presented to players and "real" timers to shift, and that another player can use this for an easy win (skip turn) at my reputations cost?

Because this happened to me twice already, and I have another opinion about this.

Regards.
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Tisaac
Posts: 2736
Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: Reputation wins

Post by Tisaac »

PC8T wrote: 16 October 2021, 08:36 Just a question from my side about the reputation wins.

Do we consider it to be fairplay if:

BGA has disconnect/connect issues all the time (server side) that influence game timers presented to players and "real" timers to shift, and that another player can use this for an easy win (skip turn) at my reputations cost?

Because this happened to me twice already, and I have another opinion about this.

Regards.
Do you have proof of the server side issue ? (There is a page showing status of server, you can check there)
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PC8T
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Re: Reputation wins

Post by PC8T »

I don't need that kind of proof because it does not show anything. It only shows statistics, and that is not what realtime operational monitoring is about. Proof is by the way always blaming someone. You don't need prove to make a point.

The servers fail over more frequent than ever, resulting in connect/disconnect messages in series and then the new server does not reflect the game state right at first. Then timers get of, boards mismatch. And besides that. The chat function is impaired in a recent change as well as I can no longer do that right on a brand new iPad, with issues like spaces not being seen. Clicks not being registered.

And then there is this pop up blaming me not to be that player, that shows up after just one game that fails on you. It's the internet; reliability of service is not a right of path here; you misunderstand the concept here.

Well I have a message: don't be that platform. Be an example of good behaviour. Don't start by using CAPITALS yourself. And don't reward people ending games because they are able to immediately click as the timer drops below zero, which is a bug by itself, because I really know how to do my actions in a 5 minute pace game and this was really no 5 minutes.

I am not angry by the way; I just see more and more errors coming into the platform, as time progresses, had a look at some code, and think that scalability has become somewhat of an issue. And I also notice that the amount of bugs is only growing harder than get solved.
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Tisaac
Posts: 2736
Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: Reputation wins

Post by Tisaac »

PC8T wrote: 17 October 2021, 11:51 I don't need that kind of proof because it does not show anything. It only shows statistics, and that is not what realtime operational monitoring is about. Proof is by the way always blaming someone. You don't need prove to make a point.

The servers fail over more frequent than ever, resulting in connect/disconnect messages in series and then the new server does not reflect the game state right at first. Then timers get of, boards mismatch. And besides that. The chat function is impaired in a recent change as well as I can no longer do that right on a brand new iPad, with issues like spaces not being seen. Clicks not being registered.

And then there is this pop up blaming me not to be that player, that shows up after just one game that fails on you. It's the internet; reliability of service is not a right of path here; you misunderstand the concept here.

Well I have a message: don't be that platform. Be an example of good behaviour. Don't start by using CAPITALS yourself. And don't reward people ending games because they are able to immediately click as the timer drops below zero, which is a bug by itself, because I really know how to do my actions in a 5 minute pace game and this was really no 5 minutes.

I am not angry by the way; I just see more and more errors coming into the platform, as time progresses, had a look at some code, and think that scalability has become somewhat of an issue. And I also notice that the amount of bugs is only growing harder than get solved.
Do you have any proof/stats for your last paragraph ? I mean i could just say that i never experienced any bugs in my recent games and that i feel the website runs better than it was before, and it would be my words against yours. Including the confirmation bias into account, any message similar to your should include some objective facts if you want to have constructing discussions, otherwise i could just say that it's your internet connection that have issue and not the website.
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dschingis27
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Joined: 27 June 2015, 18:30

Re: Reputation wins

Post by dschingis27 »

PC8T wrote: 17 October 2021, 11:51 I don't need that kind of proof because it does not show anything. It only shows statistics, [...]
Epic.

Unfortunately such a mindset occurs way too often. :cry:
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PC8T
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Re: Reputation wins

Post by PC8T »

Tisaac wrote: 17 October 2021, 12:51
PC8T wrote: 17 October 2021, 11:51 I don't need that kind of proof because it does not show anything. It only shows statistics, and that is not what realtime operational monitoring is about. Proof is by the way always blaming someone. You don't need prove to make a point.

The servers fail over more frequent than ever, resulting in connect/disconnect messages in series and then the new server does not reflect the game state right at first. Then timers get of, boards mismatch. And besides that. The chat function is impaired in a recent change as well as I can no longer do that right on a brand new iPad, with issues like spaces not being seen. Clicks not being registered.

And then there is this pop up blaming me not to be that player, that shows up after just one game that fails on you. It's the internet; reliability of service is not a right of path here; you misunderstand the concept here.

Well I have a message: don't be that platform. Be an example of good behaviour. Don't start by using CAPITALS yourself. And don't reward people ending games because they are able to immediately click as the timer drops below zero, which is a bug by itself, because I really know how to do my actions in a 5 minute pace game and this was really no 5 minutes.

I am not angry by the way; I just see more and more errors coming into the platform, as time progresses, had a look at some code, and think that scalability has become somewhat of an issue. And I also notice that the amount of bugs is only growing harder than get solved.
Do you have any proof/stats for your last paragraph ? I mean i could just say that i never experienced any bugs in my recent games and that i feel the website runs better than it was before, and it would be my words against yours. Including the confirmation bias into account, any message similar to your should include some objective facts if you want to have constructing discussions, otherwise i could just say that it's your internet connection that have issue and not the website.
There is three things:
1. Infrastructure architecture
2. Platform development
3. Game development.

I am talking about the issues that seem to be occurring in 1 and 2. Not in the game layer. The later bugs are picked up by an active community of developers, which you are part of. The first is something most people are unaware about. The 2. are tickets that hardly get picked up. Try to look at a point like sound issues. It is really not that hard to come up with a solution that works in audio, but you need to understand how to deal with audio on different platforms. I even provided a workaround that could be used as inspiration to finally solve it, and it gets ignored.

The fact that the websocket drops every day multiple times, leading to multiple disconnect/connect messages by all players in the game is probably due to issues on the websocket used for transport, probably load balancer issues. It could also be due to that everything is hosted in France, which of last weeks outage does not seem a scalable choice, for people outside that country. But that being the backbone of game interaction leads to different temporal versions of the truth. No game can work out those problems reliably if that is the case; fast recovery however does it's merits luckily.

But you draw conclusions that it by default is the fault of the user of the platform. I would not want to go either way; sometimes something occurs, which is outside the control of user and developer. Should we then blame? I don't think that is constructive. Besides that, this is a gaming platform. Let's chillax here. My point is that if you want things to have a positive atmosphere, the simple rule applies that you don't induce some negative thoughts about everything.

Then there is cultural difference in communication. I consider messages like "Don't be that person" as more offensive than a swear word once in a while (which I don't condone by the way). You linguistically incline that someone should not be himself, for something they had no influence on, without any possibility to make an objection. I do get that it is not possible to accommodate all tastes there, so I will need to learn to live with that I guess. In my perspective also reputation is a misnomer. Look I have ruined that one on the forum already with my post that is seen as destructive because it writes things you don't like or agree on, whereas I mean it constructive still. But that ruined reputation is not measurable in an objective way. It is because you think I am a - put your whatever you want here - that is in your way. I don't want to be in your way.

The platform has many good things that currently incline me to stay. I also would like to point out that I really like some of the adaptions you put into play on this platform. Let's just agree to disagree on how things should work, and continue our lives. After all this should be a gaming platform, and not a blaming platform, and if this was read as negative, then it really defeated the intention I wanted to write this post in the begin with. Thanks for making the unicorns fly; have a nice day.
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Tisaac
Posts: 2736
Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: Reputation wins

Post by Tisaac »

PC8T wrote: 17 October 2021, 16:37
Tisaac wrote: 17 October 2021, 12:51
PC8T wrote: 17 October 2021, 11:51 I don't need that kind of proof because it does not show anything. It only shows statistics, and that is not what realtime operational monitoring is about. Proof is by the way always blaming someone. You don't need prove to make a point.

The servers fail over more frequent than ever, resulting in connect/disconnect messages in series and then the new server does not reflect the game state right at first. Then timers get of, boards mismatch. And besides that. The chat function is impaired in a recent change as well as I can no longer do that right on a brand new iPad, with issues like spaces not being seen. Clicks not being registered.

And then there is this pop up blaming me not to be that player, that shows up after just one game that fails on you. It's the internet; reliability of service is not a right of path here; you misunderstand the concept here.

Well I have a message: don't be that platform. Be an example of good behaviour. Don't start by using CAPITALS yourself. And don't reward people ending games because they are able to immediately click as the timer drops below zero, which is a bug by itself, because I really know how to do my actions in a 5 minute pace game and this was really no 5 minutes.

I am not angry by the way; I just see more and more errors coming into the platform, as time progresses, had a look at some code, and think that scalability has become somewhat of an issue. And I also notice that the amount of bugs is only growing harder than get solved.
Do you have any proof/stats for your last paragraph ? I mean i could just say that i never experienced any bugs in my recent games and that i feel the website runs better than it was before, and it would be my words against yours. Including the confirmation bias into account, any message similar to your should include some objective facts if you want to have constructing discussions, otherwise i could just say that it's your internet connection that have issue and not the website.
There is three things:
1. Infrastructure architecture
2. Platform development
3. Game development.

I am talking about the issues that seem to be occurring in 1 and 2. Not in the game layer. The later bugs are picked up by an active community of developers, which you are part of. The first is something most people are unaware about. The 2. are tickets that hardly get picked up. Try to look at a point like sound issues. It is really not that hard to come up with a solution that works in audio, but you need to understand how to deal with audio on different platforms. I even provided a workaround that could be used as inspiration to finally solve it, and it gets ignored.

The fact that the websocket drops every day multiple times, leading to multiple disconnect/connect messages by all players in the game is probably due to issues on the websocket used for transport, probably load balancer issues. It could also be due to that everything is hosted in France, which of last weeks outage does not seem a scalable choice, for people outside that country. But that being the backbone of game interaction leads to different temporal versions of the truth. No game can work out those problems reliably if that is the case; fast recovery however does it's merits luckily.

But you draw conclusions that it by default is the fault of the user of the platform. I would not want to go either way; sometimes something occurs, which is outside the control of user and developer. Should we then blame? I don't think that is constructive. Besides that, this is a gaming platform. Let's chillax here. My point is that if you want things to have a positive atmosphere, the simple rule applies that you don't induce some negative thoughts about everything.

Then there is cultural difference in communication. I consider messages like "Don't be that person" as more offensive than a swear word once in a while (which I don't condone by the way). You linguistically incline that someone should not be himself, for something they had no influence on, without any possibility to make an objection. I do get that it is not possible to accommodate all tastes there, so I will need to learn to live with that I guess. In my perspective also reputation is a misnomer. Look I have ruined that one on the forum already with my post that is seen as destructive because it writes things you don't like or agree on, whereas I mean it constructive still. But that ruined reputation is not measurable in an objective way. It is because you think I am a - put your whatever you want here - that is in your way. I don't want to be in your way.

The platform has many good things that currently incline me to stay. I also would like to point out that I really like some of the adaptions you put into play on this platform. Let's just agree to disagree on how things should work, and continue our lives. After all this should be a gaming platform, and not a blaming platform, and if this was read as negative, then it really defeated the intention I wanted to write this post in the begin with. Thanks for making the unicorns fly; have a nice day.
Glad you cleared things up. Your first post tone was very much similar to some players ranting about whatever when they are loosing because of anything (fake random / disconnected / kingmaking / ....). I also think there are rooms for improvement in layers 1 and 2, but also think a perfect solution will never exists so it's really a matter of statistics. If only 0.001% of the tables are encountering issue that might prevent players to finish the table without being skipped, that would sound reasonable to me even though that would still me a bunch a players pissed of.
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