Players! Please please please ATTACK the player who is in Tokyo!

[bionic20]

The problem is KoT was not designed to have a EP record. That means ppl are awarded being in 2nd place. KoT is a game about "kinghunting" (as oppose to kingmaking) because is designed as one player wins and everyone else loses. But with the BGA's EP rank, ppl are ok with being in 2nd, breaking the game's balace. Geez, in some cases, it's worthy being in 3rd if the 4th player has higher ELO than you. That's why I hate ELO games. That's happen in so many games, acctually. In Rallyman GT is almost a rule the 2nd player blocking everyone else, giving 1ts player a free win.

You hit the nail in the head.

When I begun playing KoT on beta I got as frustrated as OP with the players who didnt attack Tokyo. I immediately dismissed them as noobs and I even RTd some of them (just for me, not reported). When the game was released and the ELO ladder was established I was surprised to discover that among the scaredy noobs, there were players with high ELO. These players made the conscious decision of racking up hearts/XP at the price at leaving a player run amok in Tokyo. I hated them but it was hard to argue with the results. Worst thing is that my lizard brain involuntarily adapted as well (I shouldnt care that much about elo, but I do) but that pretty much ruined the 4-6p experience for me. The upside is that this made me discover the 2p variant which is the one I play exclusively now. Its way more luck based but there are no cowardly ELO machinations in what it basically is a sumo slapfest. Its almost a complete different game from the 4-6P

[thoun]

The Halloween expansion encourages more smashes and is also a way to compensate that

[bionic20]

The Halloween expansion encourages more smashes and is also a way to compensate that

But Princess, Thoun, Princess. Did you bring my concerns to iello? Im trusting on you to make them see the light

[gnocchi donkey]

Funny, I see more of whats almost "kingmaking" where you will have the shy person never astriking, then i use my roll to strike the toyko holder out , THEN that person wails on me ! Worse part i was nto aleader in energy or VP

[buv3x]

The problem is KoT was not designed to have a EP record. That means ppl are awarded being in 2nd place. KoT is a game about "kinghunting" (as oppose to kingmaking) because is designed as one player wins and everyone else loses. But with the BGA's EP rank, ppl are ok with being in 2nd, breaking the game's balace. Geez, in some cases, it's worthy being in 3rd if the 4th player has higher ELO than you. That's why I hate ELO games. That's happen in so many games, acctually. In Rallyman GT is almost a rule the 2nd player blocking everyone else, giving 1ts player a free win.

I was about to argue that it was designed that way, but then I checked the rules and it turns out that you are right. Rules do not mention any end game placement apart from the winner. So this kind of "tiebreak" for 2-6 places is a BGA invention, as I understand. And it's not about ELO per se, a true to the rules implementation would just place all the lost players in a tie for 2nd with ELO being calculated no issues.
In my mind, it should have been an optional variant (with or without tiebreak for 2-6 places), so that it can be tested and determined by popularity.

[thoun]

Rules do not mention any end game placement apart from the winner.

When developping the game, I wasn't sure if losers should be ranked or not. So I asked BGA admins and KoT publisher and KoT author, and they all said to let as it is, with rank between losers, even if it wasn't an easy decision.
On argument by one of the BGA admins is that it is very rare the rules explicitely mention "rank other players by their points". It's implicit. Almost all games on BGA rank the 2 to 6 places, and most of the time it is not explicitely written in the rules. It's right, but I never realized it until he said that.

[buv3x]

When developping the game, I wasn't sure if losers should be ranked or not. So I asked BGA admins and KoT publisher and KoT author, and they all said to let as it is, with rank between losers, even if it wasn't an easy decision.
On argument by one of the BGA admins is that it is very rare the rules explicitely mention "rank other players by their points". It's implicit. Almost all games on BGA rank the 2 to 6 places, and most of the time it is not explicitely written in the rules. It's right, but I never realized it until he said that.

Thanks a lot for your implementation and also for the explanation. It's very interesting to have a peak into this process.
And the question for you as a developer, what do you think about a possibility of having this different kind of ranking as a variant. Is it even feasible from a development standpoint?

[Romain672]

Thanks a lot for your implementation and also for the explanation. It's very interesting to have a peak into this process.
And the question for you as a developer, what do you think about a possibility of having this different kind of ranking as a variant. Is it even feasible from a development standpoint?

You can at the end make all players which don't rank first to be tied at second.

But atm, that reward low elo players and not high elo one since some years: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=11297 : the high elo loss the elo against the winner, and the tie between all others players.

[thoun]

It is feasible, yes. But I highly doubt we will do it one day, it's more work for me (handle both scoring, which can be tricky (if all players at are 0 points but 1 survive, if all players dies at the same time, ...), and it will confuse some players if we sometimes score one way, sometimes the other. And it would need to revalidate with publisher etc.
So I would rather focus on next KoT surprises

[gnocchi donkey]

I have been in several games where there was one or more players who refused to roll attacks, basically allowing one player to stay in Tokyo for as long as they want. This is a very bad strategy... unless you wish for the player in Tokyo to win, in which case it will work very well!

I see players who clearly wish to "hole up," mind their own business, and try to roll stars and energy points. The problem is, KoT is not a game where this strategy will work well.

While a player is in Tokyo they get TWO major advantages: two free stars, once per round, and a multiplier to their attack rolls. Their attack rolls are basically multiplied by the number of players who are NOT in Tokyo. So if you roll two damage dice while in Tokyo and there are two players outside of Tokyo, you do two damage to each player for a total of four. All the target players must now deal with this damage. They can ignore it (very dangerous, they could quickly be eliminated) or concentrate on trying to get healing, which will slow down their efforts to roll points. Meanwhile, the player in Tokyo can just sit there and earn points for free while everyone else scrambles to stay alive.

Fortunately, the game has a built-in solution to this problem: attack the player in Tokyo! Make it risky for them to stay there! And when they leave, you get put in their place and gain a free star. Then the game naturally balances out.

I know that some players naturally do not have an aggressive play style. I understand that. But I would respectfully suggest that if you do not enjoy that play style, KoT is not the game best suited for you. But the good news is that this game makes a more aggressive style fun and rewarding. Join in! Attack the player in Tokyo!

Thanks.

VERY SIMPLE>>>ELO system for this game is BROKEN BROKEN BROKEN. TO get somebody to do the slashwork at the guy about to go out is to keep your 2nd place 3rd place STUPID STUPID STUPID! This game should have ONE winner and 3 losers same position not postion of elimination..and that is why this game will NEVER play like a REAL LIFE game of KOT