Bad karma in arena games

[Rita4321]

Well thanks for the answers players

I hoped I would get some practical solution for that problem, but it seems it doesnt exist - yet.

I switched back now to simple play and i have absolutly no problems with starts there

Well as for abandoning, half theese games doesnt start so i think other players experiencing same problems.
I really tried abandon button but always somebody declines.

I think to start with the players who kick out you are who have a bad hand and think they would loose.

Or annoyed...or who got kicked out previous games and just returning the favor
It doesnt seem a nice thing to do.

I would like a milder solution, but I understand your point of view also. These are 6 player games so just one is enough who thinks the same way.

[RazorOz]

They gain a lower chance of it happening again.

How, when nobody is intentionally doing this anyway.

You have no idea how long someone has been waiting, and seem perfectly willing to devalue that time given that you still have not acknowledged that there is anything at all wrong with letting some breathe a sigh of relief that the game is finally starting only to have a no show. I haven't looked at your history, so maybe you only play games that fire off within seconds of queuing.

Yes, expelling someone is unwelcoming to people who place themselves in a position to be expelled.

Maybe the reason you are waiting so long for games is because you are getting blocked by lots of players for acting like this. But no, I wait for games plenty, and I can safely tell you that players doing this are far worse than the player who doesn't turn up, because there actions are intentional, the player not turning up isn't.

It's also unwelcoming to every other player in the community both by making players less likely to want to play, by making that community uninviting, and by taking ELO out of the games.

Well thanks for the answers players

I hoped I would get some practical solution for that problem, but it seems it doesnt exist - yet.

I switched back now to simple play and i have absolutly no problems with starts there

Well as for abandoning, half theese games doesnt start so i think other players experiencing same problems.
I really tried abandon button but always somebody declines.

I think to start with the players who kick out you are who have a bad hand and think they would loose.

Or annoyed...or who got kicked out previous games and just returning the favor
It doesnt seem a nice thing to do.

I would like a milder solution, but I understand your point of view also. These are 6 player games so just one is enough who thinks the same way.

The practical solution at your end is to turn on alerts of some kind, from the other end it's to hope they implement some kind of confirmation screen like there is for simple games, but I have no idea if it's even a suggestion, let and out how likely it is to happen. But you aren't the first person to bring this up, it's been brought up directly in the Heat: Pedal to the Metal forum here, https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37342.

Re: abandoning, I normally just warn whoever is about to kick the player that if they kick the player they're getting blocked, and most players listen.

[Meeplelowda]

Maybe the reason you are waiting so long for games is because you are getting blocked by lots of players for acting like this.

No, the reason is that I like some extremely unpopular games, like Donuts née Insert. You need to keep your rank speculation in the box unless you can support it with data. You can actually see games in my history where I proposed to abandon two-player games where the person was a no-show. In a two-person game, the game is automatically abandoned if the person not out of time proposes to abandon. But this is my personal choice. I fully support anyone summarily booting people after waiting around for a game to start.

[buu441]

They gain a lower chance of it happening again.

How, when nobody is intentionally doing this anyway.

You have no idea how long someone has been waiting, and seem perfectly willing to devalue that time given that you still have not acknowledged that there is anything at all wrong with letting some breathe a sigh of relief that the game is finally starting only to have a no show. I haven't looked at your history, so maybe you only play games that fire off within seconds of queuing.

Yes, expelling someone is unwelcoming to people who place themselves in a position to be expelled.

Maybe the reason you are waiting so long for games is because you are getting blocked by lots of players for acting like this. But no, I wait for games plenty, and I can safely tell you that players doing this are far worse than the player who doesn't turn up, because there actions are intentional, the player not turning up isn't.

It's also unwelcoming to every other player in the community both by making players less likely to want to play, by making that community uninviting, and by taking ELO out of the games.

Well thanks for the answers players

I hoped I would get some practical solution for that problem, but it seems it doesnt exist - yet.

I switched back now to simple play and i have absolutly no problems with starts there

Well as for abandoning, half theese games doesnt start so i think other players experiencing same problems.
I really tried abandon button but always somebody declines.

I think to start with the players who kick out you are who have a bad hand and think they would loose.

Or annoyed...or who got kicked out previous games and just returning the favor
It doesnt seem a nice thing to do.

I would like a milder solution, but I understand your point of view also. These are 6 player games so just one is enough who thinks the same way.

The practical solution at your end is to turn on alerts of some kind, from the other end it's to hope they implement some kind of confirmation screen like there is for simple games, but I have no idea if it's even a suggestion, let and out how likely it is to happen. But you aren't the first person to bring this up, it's been brought up directly in the Heat: Pedal to the Metal forum here, https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37342.

Re: abandoning, I normally just warn whoever is about to kick the player that if they kick the player they're getting blocked, and most players listen.

Lol the amount of mental gymnastics going on here to justify bad behavior is amazing. Also, apparently they are trying to get their way by intimidating other players with the threat of a block, whatever shall I do with my life if they block me. And they are delusional enough to believe that it works :'D

[Jellby]

They gain a lower chance of it happening again.

How, when nobody is intentionally doing this anyway.

If you get a penalty, next time (or next, or next) you'll think twice before queuing for Arena and/or leaving a tab unattended to do something else. If games are simply abandoned, you'll continue queuing for Arena and forgetting/leaving the building.

[JohnnyCyclops]

I don’t routinely post a game comment upon sitting down to start. But if the opponent has not made a first move and their clock time gets down to say 60 or 30 seconds then I’ll post a quick “hi and good luck” message as I believe for some settings this might ‘ping’ or create something on the other player’s screen to alert them the game started.

An alternative for the OP is to join Arena Turn Based games then they’ll have quite a while to catch the start of the game and successfully get it played. Certainly for less popular games because else you’re left waiting for another player to also want to play your game RIGHT NOW. For less popular games I will join ‘now’ in Arena because if someone has been waiting we’ll get matched pretty quickly, and then after a further minute or so I’ll cancel, figuring no one else is around right now to play live, and I’ll try again later.

[RazorOz]

No, the reason is that I like some extremely unpopular games, like Donuts née Insert. You need to keep your rank speculation in the box unless you can support it with data. You can actually see games in my history where I proposed to abandon two-player games where the person was a no-show. In a two-person game, the game is automatically abandoned if the person not out of time proposes to abandon. But this is my personal choice. I fully support anyone summarily booting people after waiting around for a game to start.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree, because the personal choice angle could be used to defend any behaviour, doesn't mean you should engage in such behaviour that will turn people off.

Lol the amount of mental gymnastics going on here to justify bad behavior is amazing. Also, apparently they are trying to get their way by intimidating other players with the threat of a block, whatever shall I do with my life if they block me. And they are delusional enough to believe that it works :'D

Yes, my behaviour is the bad one, the one promoting making the community more welcoming to players, particularly newer players, and people wonder why gaming communities get bad rep as unwelcoming...

Maybe it helps people see the error of their ways, maybe it doesn't, but it does work, because like I say I see this attempted behaviour all the time, the majority of players are good people who will abandon upon request. In some cases I'm pretty sure the person doing it doesn't even realise they have another option, just because the boot option appears on your screen, while the option to abandon is hidden away.

If you get a penalty, next time (or next, or next) you'll think twice before queuing for Arena and/or leaving a tab unattended to do something else. If games are simply abandoned, you'll continue queuing for Arena and forgetting/leaving the building.

The problem then is though kind of my point that if their response is to not queue at all, you've just lowered the amount of players in the player pool.

The last argument would hold more weight if it was somehow intentional/the same players were constantly doing it, but in my experience that's not what is happening at all. If you're queuing say 20 minutes for a game this could happen to a lot of players, especially as it's unrealistic to expect people to just sit watching the screen waiting for the game to start for that time, something that although my experience of playing that way is limited, but I believe is even more true for people playing a lot on mobile.

[RazorOz]

I don’t routinely post a game comment upon sitting down to start. But if the opponent has not made a first move and their clock time gets down to say 60 or 30 seconds then I’ll post a quick “hi and good luck” message as I believe for some settings this might ‘ping’ or create something on the other player’s screen to alert them the game started.

An alternative for the OP is to join Arena Turn Based games then they’ll have quite a while to catch the start of the game and successfully get it played. Certainly for less popular games because else you’re left waiting for another player to also want to play your game RIGHT NOW. For less popular games I will join ‘now’ in Arena because if someone has been waiting we’ll get matched pretty quickly, and then after a further minute or so I’ll cancel, figuring no one else is around right now to play live, and I’ll try again later.

I often do similar to this. Heat has a reasonably long clock (4 mins at normal speed), so if the clock goes below 1 minute at the start I norm DM the player hoping it pings them in some way, doesn't always work mind you, but worth a try.

[Jellby]

The problem then is though kind of my point that if their response is to not queue at all, you've just lowered the amount of players in the player pool.

Yes, but by removing the "low quality" players, the average quality increases. Or the "low quality" players will try to improve their quality. A player that queues for Arena and then never shows up (intentionally or not), only degrades the Arena experience for other players, it's better to have this player removed. Of course, this is a simplification, players who do that do not do that all the the time, and most players will do that some time, but I'm convinced having penalties reduces the chance of it happening.

[RazorOz]

The problem then is though kind of my point that if their response is to not queue at all, you've just lowered the amount of players in the player pool.

Yes, but by removing the "low quality" players, the average quality increases. Or the "low quality" players will try to improve their quality. A player that queues for Arena and then never shows up (intentionally or not), only degrades the Arena experience for other players, it's better to have this player removed. Of course, this is a simplification, players who do that do not do that all the the time, and most players will do that some time, but I'm convinced having penalties reduces the chance of it happening.

But as I'm saying it doesn't tend to be the same players doing it over and over, like yes if someone was constantly doing this then you'd have a point. If someone does this 1 in 100 games then it's hard to argue they're a low quality player.

The penalty idea I don't know. It's a different topic as I certainly don't think the penalties for this should be harsher, but I've often argued in other threads the penalties for quitters should be harsher, because they're too easy for players to brush off. The context being, that Heat has the worst quitter problem of any game I've played on BGA, where players play to the last turn, know they've lost and quit, and the deterrent for doing this is nowhere near high enough, and my point there is the -10/20% I just don't think has any real impact on these players. Like sure if this kept happening to you, so your karma absolutely tanked then you might take note (and you'd get blocked from playing Arena anyway), but that then comes back to what I've said that in my experience the same players aren't doing this over and over for that really to be relevant.