What could I have done better in this game?

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Ceaseless
Posts: 1303
Joined: 12 November 2022, 17:06

Re: What could I have done better in this game?

Post by Ceaseless »

FrankJones wrote: 30 May 2025, 20:03
Ceaseless wrote: 30 May 2025, 18:49


Yeah, don't underestimate migratory birds. The ability to say "I have a bird here" is nice, especially when it comes to early game goals where you simply need stuff to exist where you want it to fast. A generic forest bird and a migratory complete the basic early game goal of 2 forest 1 wetland all by themselves, rather than needing 3 birds. Chimney's synergy here in particular was wild though.

"There are a lot more platform than flock birds" is a dealbreaker when you're talking about only needing x more birds. The flocker's main edge was needing fewer birds to help offset its minority problem, when since this partiular opening hand cuts off a lot of the numbers advantage, it has to rely on specific scenarios like only getting 1 more bird to take the lead. There are a lot of good flockers, but many are early game related, so you may find that lots of them lose the quality war too. I don't have the groups memorized enough to do a full comparison offhand, but I'm sure both flockers and platinum nests have several good and bad birds. I'd say the quantity factor should win out. I wouldn't call it a major decision though, while the platinum nest is probably better more often the difference is not one I'd consider gamebreaking. Whether or not to keep Chimney Swift and Kingbird will matter far more.
Agreed. Well, I got to 310 Elo in 21 games. That was the easy part, Now let's see how I fare restricting access to only players rated 300 or higher.
My current opponent is rated 150 points higher, and played an early migratory bird and a turkey vulture. A bold strategy; let's see if it works out. I liked my position, but so far I am drawing blanks with my card draws and I'm getting flustered.

Also, I've played hundreds and hundreds of games with all expansions that were available at the time I played, and these 21 games are my only games since the EE expansion that I have played without any. I'm still adjusting.

I actually find it really frustrating, and if I get stuck around 300 Elo I'll just quit, because I find the game so much more fun with the CHiffchaff, the eagles, the chaffinch, the extra bonus cards and end-round goals, the maned duck (which I expect will be banned along with the power 5 currently banned), Savi's Warbler, Audoin's Gull, the teal and yellow cards, and the much-improved game board.
300 elo tends to still be around the beginner range for most games with an actual playerbase here, so with enough Wingspan experience you should be able to fly through it without too much trouble. Though I didn't spot a game of yours with 150 more elo than you nearby. A Turkey Vulture plus migratory bird seems like a comfortable enough opening to me though.
FrankJones
Posts: 2447
Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: What could I have done better in this game?

Post by FrankJones »

Ceaseless wrote: 30 May 2025, 20:34
FrankJones wrote: 30 May 2025, 20:12 What the heck?

My win% against players below 290: 60%.

My Win% against players above 290: 83%.
(half these were in the 450 neighborhood).

That makes no sense.
Maybe you played worse early on? That, and your sample size was pretty low. I skimmed your game history page and saw a few games where you scored under 80 points, which usually requires some mistakes to happen. I saw the openings of some of those and your choices were eyebrow raising to me without having to dig past the first turn.
I think you nailed it. I struggled a lot when I first started. I had to adjust to no expansions, no nectar, sluggish starts, 2-player games instead of multi-player, stagnant bird =feeders and card trays, etc. I have since won 7 in a row. And maybe I play sloppier when I see a lower ranked opponent (which is unacceptable).

I too reviewed some of my earlier games (several weeks ago when I was doing some analysis), and I saw some plays that made me say, "WHAT was that ???"

I know on at least one occasion, I kept the wrong starting food and never recovered. I think I was accustomed to selecting my food keeps instead of food discards.

Also, my earlier games were real time, and I had some games played during a period when games were moving in slow motion, resulting in the plenty-sufficient timer constantly running down to zero, and causing me to rush my plays. I remember some games where rolling the dice in the bird feeder was happening in agonizing slow motion, and took more than a minute to finish.
FrankJones
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Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: What could I have done better in this game?

Post by FrankJones »

Ceaseless wrote: 30 May 2025, 20:39 Though I didn't spot a game of yours with 150 more elo than you nearby.
My apologies; I am not sure what you mean by this. "Nearby", as in, someone with 150 more Elo than I is hosting an open-invite game in the lobby? Or are you referring to my game history? I am confused.
Ceaseless
Posts: 1303
Joined: 12 November 2022, 17:06

Re: What could I have done better in this game?

Post by Ceaseless »

FrankJones wrote: 30 May 2025, 20:53
Ceaseless wrote: 30 May 2025, 20:39 Though I didn't spot a game of yours with 150 more elo than you nearby.
My apologies; I am not sure what you mean by this. "Nearby", as in, someone with 150 more Elo than I is hosting an open-invite game in the lobby? Or are you referring to my game history? I am confused.
I meant I couldn't find a game with a player 150 points above 300 in your recent games.
FrankJones
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Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: What could I have done better in this game?

Post by FrankJones »

Oh, you're referring to my comment:

"My current opponent is rated 150 points higher, and played an early migratory bird and a turkey vulture. A bold strategy; let's see if it works out. I liked my position, but so far I am drawing blanks with my card draws and I'm getting flustered."

I was citing the 150 difference from memory. It's actually 127 Elo difference; 437 versus my 310.

(It's still in progress.)
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Florrible
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Joined: 23 December 2020, 12:54

Re: What could I have done better in this game?

Post by Florrible »

thank you for everyone's replies, I'm going to read through them now as I've only just skimmed them, I can see that everyone is asking about the choice of playing Eastern Kingbird in the grassland, so in the meantime I can answer that question, I was already planning to pick up the swift so at that moment that was the only bird in my hand that could be played in the grassland and I wasn't sure when/if I was going to get any other grassland birds so I put it there to start with. I played that first and not the Grebe so that I maximised getting extra worms in case my opponent played a forest bird as their opening move. Hope that makes sense. You don't have to agree, just wanted to explain my reasoning.

edit: I used to always take migratory birds when I could but then after watching the videos and reading some of the discussions on here I realised that these are not generally well liked and considered not worth it (the ones that require 3 foods to play are definitely not worth it when there's plenty others that do the same thing for just 2 food)
FrankJones
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Re: What could I have done better in this game?

Post by FrankJones »

But, what is the rush to get a bird in the grassland? it allows you to go from laying 2 eggs to ... laying 2 eggs.

It's far more important to get 2 birds in the forest.
Andrei3009
Posts: 271
Joined: 16 November 2023, 21:55

Re: What could I have done better in this game?

Post by Andrei3009 »

Ceaseless wrote: 30 May 2025, 16:39
I'm going to suggest a hand fairly different than what the other two commenters said. I'd have kept Grebe, Kingbird, and Chimney Swift for the birds, an invertebrate and fish for food, and finally the Platform Builder since I have two Platform nests in my opening hand as well as a heavy drawing wetland bird plus another wetland bird by its side. Let's look at the differences my hand had from their choices and yours.
I am very afraid to play migrating birds because everyone knows that they are weak and due to lack of experience, I have almost never seen their strengths. However, this is not a reason not to play them at all.

Good thing that I wrote my opinion about the game.
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Florrible
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Joined: 23 December 2020, 12:54

Re: What could I have done better in this game?

Post by Florrible »

FrankJones wrote: 30 May 2025, 22:24 But, what is the rush to get a bird in the grassland? it allows you to go from laying 2 eggs to ... laying 2 eggs.

It's far more important to get 2 birds in the forest.
Yeah I get you and this is totally right. I guess I became worried that no good grassland birds would become available in time for the round where birds in grassland was the eor goal.
Ceaseless
Posts: 1303
Joined: 12 November 2022, 17:06

Re: What could I have done better in this game?

Post by Ceaseless »

FrankJones wrote: 30 May 2025, 21:52 Oh, you're referring to my comment:

"My current opponent is rated 150 points higher, and played an early migratory bird and a turkey vulture. A bold strategy; let's see if it works out. I liked my position, but so far I am drawing blanks with my card draws and I'm getting flustered."

I was citing the 150 difference from memory. It's actually 127 Elo difference; 437 versus my 310.

(It's still in progress.)
Ah, that would explain it. I was looking for that 150+ gap due to it being one of the described traits.
Florrible wrote: 30 May 2025, 22:02 thank you for everyone's replies, I'm going to read through them now as I've only just skimmed them, I can see that everyone is asking about the choice of playing Eastern Kingbird in the grassland, so in the meantime I can answer that question, I was already planning to pick up the swift so at that moment that was the only bird in my hand that could be played in the grassland and I wasn't sure when/if I was going to get any other grassland birds so I put it there to start with. I played that first and not the Grebe so that I maximised getting extra worms in case my opponent played a forest bird as their opening move. Hope that makes sense. You don't have to agree, just wanted to explain my reasoning.
I don't recall seeing anyone object to Kingbird first, just the placement of it in the Grassland.
Florrible wrote: 30 May 2025, 22:02 edit: I used to always take migratory birds when I could but then after watching the videos and reading some of the discussions on here I realised that these are not generally well liked and considered not worth it (the ones that require 3 foods to play are definitely not worth it when there's plenty others that do the same thing for just 2 food)
Andrei3009 wrote: 30 May 2025, 23:43
Ceaseless wrote: 30 May 2025, 16:39
I'm going to suggest a hand fairly different than what the other two commenters said. I'd have kept Grebe, Kingbird, and Chimney Swift for the birds, an invertebrate and fish for food, and finally the Platform Builder since I have two Platform nests in my opening hand as well as a heavy drawing wetland bird plus another wetland bird by its side. Let's look at the differences my hand had from their choices and yours.
I am very afraid to play migrating birds because everyone knows that they are weak and due to lack of experience, I have almost never seen their strengths. However, this is not a reason not to play them at all.

Good thing that I wrote my opinion about the game.
I can't say I track what players say about Wingspan, but migratory birds are great, especially in the early game. Since they can move row to row, you can take advantage of their function more often than birds that only go off in one row. It's a very flexible and constant little edge. There may be better cards out there, but a 1-2 food migratory bird can nearly guarantee at the very least a playable opening hand that support a wide range of cards.
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