Perhaps the time has come to say the unsayable about expulsion

[nik592]

If that's how you feel, either you can choose to also take more time (that said, you open yourself to being expelled by the other player), or you can expel them when they're in the red if you feel it's unfair for them to win with using extra time.

[buv3x]

Generally I like the idea of a chess-like clock, where timing out is an automatic loss. Maybe a small point on this, though, if I understand the time algorithm correctly, time increment is added for a whole turn, not for a single action. And in certain games the amount of actions per turn is hard to predict, including required inputs outside of your turn, which might make controlling the time trickier, especially in a fast game. Or maybe I'm wrong and that's not how time works on BGA.

[RicardoRix]

There already is an automated expulsion. It just happens when you they go deep in the red.

Personally I think a better idea is to see a profile statistic of how much time a player on average (median) spends on their move. Some players open tables with 1move/day on them and move frequently, but they like the freedom in case they need some extra time - which is fine. I'll happily join that table although I prefer 4moves/day.

You have to let the system be open to all players of different attitudes and put up with the different play styles. Not everyone is going to be exactly like you. Just let it slide a bit. I'm here to play board-games, I'd rather the game finishes properly and I like the time leniency.

The losing a bit of ELO for over-time seems like a good deterrent. And the 'can't expel' if you went over time yourself also seem like a good idea. Both seem like the game will more likely end with a positive outcome.

[menettm]

There already is an automated expulsion. It just happens when you they go deep in the red.

I never seen an automatic explusion yet but often the game end because, I play tournaments and, the time limit for the game is reached.

For example I had play a case where the player had 1 week for making all its play, but after 1 more week he was not yet expulsed (total 14 days).
The game ends after one more day when it reach the 15 days...

[Jellby]

There already is an automated expulsion. It just happens when you they go deep in the red.

Never seen that. After a long time with no moves the table is abandoned, but that's not the same as expelling a player.

And the 'can't expel' if you went over time yourself also seem like a good idea.

Yeah, like both players over time and no one can expel the other, so they're stuck in the game forever (until it's abandoned)

[RicardoRix]

There already is an automated expulsion. It just happens when you they go deep in the red.

Never seen that. After a long time with no moves the table is abandoned, but that's not the same as expelling a player.

AFAIK, the game is not abandoned. The game times out without action. The player who times out loses. The wording placed in the log is identical as a timeout kick, and even attributes the kick to one of the remaining players.

And the 'can't expel' if you went over time yourself also seem like a good idea.

Yeah, like both players over time and no one can expel the other, so they're stuck in the game forever (until it's abandoned)

Can't see the problem: Just like a normal game where no-body expels the other, a courtesy they expect from other players. And the game can still timeout. Another small deterrent not to go over-time.

[Retired Actuary]

As I get older and my days feel fewer, I have gotten more impatient with this, and yet my general rules are

- with about 10 seconds left on their clock I'll message "you there?" or "what's up?" or "hey now". If I don't get a response, I boot them.
- if my lead is massive, I just boot them (FWIW I'll usually resign if the other person's lead is massive in a game)
- if their lead is massive, and I have played them regularly or don't have a reason to think they're screwing around, I'll resign or submit the game to turn-based. I don't care that much about ELO.

[RobertBr]

There already is an automated expulsion. It just happens when you they go deep in the red.

Never seen that. After a long time with no moves the table is abandoned, but that's not the same as expelling a player.

AFAIK, the game is not abandoned. The game times out without action. The player who times out loses. The wording placed in the log is identical as a timeout kick, and even attributes the kick to one of the remaining players.

Pretty sure that is wrong for most games. In tournaments it does work like that but the trigger is the maximum time being reached by the game. In most games the game will abandon for inaction (its about 4 weeks in a turn based, not sure how long it is in real time), and when that happens it doesn't treat it as a player being kicked, it just cancels the game. Not sure how it works in Arena (which could conceivably be different again).

[RicardoRix]

You are both right, I need to rescind my statements about automatic expulsion. My mistake.
It very much looks like I was wrong and need to eat a healthy dose of humble pie.

All I can say is that my recollection must be much poorer than I thought it was. I play a lot of abstract games, and otherwise playing strangers I quite often prefer 2-player format. I also don't like expelling people, so I only use it as a last resort to end games. So after all that I don't know what to say, I'm not really sure how some of these games ended.

[RobertBr]

I need to rescind my statements about automatic expulsion. My mistake.

No worries, the various timing rules can be a bit tricky to keep straight in your head (especially if you have been here long enough to remember pre-Arena and pre-multiplayer tournaments).

Personally I think automatic expulsion is probably the way it needs to go, but that raises the question of how to handle multiplayer games in that scenario and what to do with games that really is not a good idea on (those that take months in turn based mode, where you generally do not want to kick), but ultimately we could play those in no time limit friendly mode.