Board Game Arena

I'm not a Hanabi player, and in general do not understand "hardcore cooperative" mentality, but based on the discussion here it seems folks were using Elo as a tracker/measurement of experience. It allowed to choose more complex conventions with more experienced players (presumably it is like Bridge conventions, but I can be totally wrong here). Also some folks used Elo as a self reward.

Regardless, it was useful for them for some reason. So, I wonder who was the customer of the change? Who requested the change and is happier now, after Elo is hidden?

Meeplelowda wrote: ↑18 January 2024, 23:05

miklomike wrote: ↑18 January 2024, 22:34 I want to make sure they realize that a lot of us are still following this thread, even if we don't post because we have already expressed how poorly this effects the site. Consecutive win streaks, hiding ELO, etc.

It's not shameful to admit that something you tried didn't work out, it's how you improve. But it seems as though there is a pattern of ignoring users, and choosing *this* to be the hill you die on. *This* being almost every time they made changes that are made without considering the actual users of the site and receive lots of negative and yet constructive feedback.

I think the lesson learned from the lengthy Bring back Turn Based "No Time Limit + Friends Only" thread that began December 2022 and is currently on its 30th page is that you can ignore a popular outcry about something and life will go on.

But to be fair, they did roll back the ELO decay and said "based on all of your comments, it appears clear that this was a bad idea." So they do....sometimes....listen.

While there are similarities, there are over 700K views of this thread (vs. 20K views of the other thread you mentioned). Recently it has been +50K views daily. I haven't seen a thread with over 100K views on this forum, people typically come to this site to play, many never visit the forum. Supposedly 700K is an indication of something.

PS: Maybe they very indirectly built a new game - "people vs. BGA"? The game is turn based and quite slow, but many folks want to see how and when it ends? Maybe somebody is taking bets "will they revert it before 1M views"? "Will they fire anybody"? "Will they close the thread and accounts of complainers?" Just kidding.

6element wrote: ↑19 January 2024, 23:23
PS: Maybe they very indirectly built a new game - "people vs. BGA"? The game is turn based and quite slow, but many folks want to see how and when it ends? Maybe somebody is taking bets "will they revert it before 1M views"? "Will they fire anybody"? "Will they close the thread and accounts of complainers?" Just kidding.

We should have chosen a faster turn rate. It's been longer than two weeks since the devs played their last turn.

GeoPaladin wrote: ↑19 January 2024, 22:55 Do players not get heavily penalized on elo if they abandon games?

IMO, not nearly enough. They should be banned from playing that game for a week afterwards or something like that. The current "penalty" doesn't seem to discourage the behaviour.

GeoPaladin wrote: ↑20 January 2024, 00:22

6element wrote: ↑19 January 2024, 23:23
PS: Maybe they very indirectly built a new game - "people vs. BGA"? The game is turn based and quite slow, but many folks want to see how and when it ends? Maybe somebody is taking bets "will they revert it before 1M views"? "Will they fire anybody"? "Will they close the thread and accounts of complainers?" Just kidding.

We should have chosen a faster turn rate. It's been longer than two weeks since the devs played their last turn.

Wait, if we expel them does it mean we win?!?

Jaky Hostinec wrote: ↑19 January 2024, 22:18 I'm not arguing with your general point, but only with the connection to Hanabi, which was the matter in the post you quoted: what kind of competitiveness is there, where players abandon the games they see they can't win? what kind of fair ELO can be get there?

The developers fixed that some time back. Abandoning a game of Hanabi is counted as a loss (score of 0) with commensurate loss of ELO rating points (consistently -10, I think). Abandonment as a strategy for inflating ELO has been almost entirely abandoned, as far as I can tell.

Nuzzer71 wrote: ↑20 January 2024, 05:56

GeoPaladin wrote: ↑19 January 2024, 22:55 Do players not get heavily penalized on elo if they abandon games?

IMO, not nearly enough. They should be banned from playing that game for a week afterwards or something like that. The current "penalty" doesn't seem to discourage the behaviour.

Not on a first offence. Internet connections occasionally drop out, or life happens. (One of the rare times I requested to abandon had me saying in chat that I had to go because after 2.5 hours of waiting in the hospital Emergency Department an orderly had finally come to admit me to a ward.)

At the moment, it’s -10 reputation for the first drop-out, -20 for the second and subsequent in a certain period; but maybe the third should be even heavier, and at some point no longer being able to play.

Meeplelowda wrote: ↑20 January 2024, 07:18

GeoPaladin wrote: ↑20 January 2024, 00:22

6element wrote: ↑19 January 2024, 23:23
PS: Maybe they very indirectly built a new game - "people vs. BGA"? The game is turn based and quite slow, but many folks want to see how and when it ends? Maybe somebody is taking bets "will they revert it before 1M views"? "Will they fire anybody"? "Will they close the thread and accounts of complainers?" Just kidding.

We should have chosen a faster turn rate. It's been longer than two weeks since the devs played their last turn.

Wait, if we expel them does it mean we win?!?

Being a winner is overrated on this site. If we expel them we won’t get full elo for the game. This game is lopsided. We’ve made hundreds of great moves while bga struggles to make 1. Considering bga’s elo is 1 at this game and the game progress is at low % (on behalf of bga) our elo gain for a kick will probably be 0.000001. All people are asking is to be rated fairly. Surely that isn’t a big ask right?

Unfortunately there's no time limit on this game. It's possible they're hoping to delay and stall until we quit the game, which is a rather depressing strategy.

But what do they win with this game? I understand what the players lose, but not what BGA 'wins'.