No Time Limit shouldn't mean Training Mode

[Tulivuori]

When you play 1 move per 2 days, then your maximum of time on the clock is 6 days.

I would like to understand better how this works.

Is this applied automatically when you have exceeded the time? I have read somewhere else that you can specify 4 days as vacation, so I wonder if you have to announce it in advance.

And does this mean you have these +4 days starting new in every game? Or is it - like a vacation - 4 days in a year in total?

The normal maximum in clock is 6 days (3x the move time). Every time you move, 2 days is added, but not to over 6 days.

If you use a vacation, then 4 days is added to whatever you had in clock.

[6element]

As a side note, I understand people's desire to play with friends with a specific time limit or no limit at all, and a desire to have some kind of ranking. What is important to keep in mind - this ranking is private-group-of-friends-ELO, it only shows who is stronger in this particular group and has nothing to do with "general" ELO. Treating it under any circumstances the same way as general ELO is totally unfair.

I disagree with this - when I play with friends, I was playing no time limit with ELO. But I play a lot of non-friend games with regular time limits, probably more than I play with my friends.

If I only play with my friends, and never with anyone outside, my ELO shouldn't matter to anyone else anyway (cause I'm not playing with them). If I'm playing outside of my friend group, then my ELO is just as valid as anyone else's.

To clarify my original point, if a specific consistent group of opponents is only playing together, their "ELO" only reflects their standing amongst them. Essentially, for a strongest player in that group such a "private ELO" can be as high as desired, giving them trophy for the 1st ELO, for example. This is totally unfair and borderline cheating.

[Peter D Switzerland]

As a side note, I understand people's desire to play with friends with a specific time limit or no limit at all, and a desire to have some kind of ranking. What is important to keep in mind - this ranking is private-group-of-friends-ELO, it only shows who is stronger in this particular group and has nothing to do with "general" ELO. Treating it under any circumstances the same way as general ELO is totally unfair.

I disagree with this - when I play with friends, I was playing no time limit with ELO. But I play a lot of non-friend games with regular time limits, probably more than I play with my friends.

If I only play with my friends, and never with anyone outside, my ELO shouldn't matter to anyone else anyway (cause I'm not playing with them). If I'm playing outside of my friend group, then my ELO is just as valid as anyone else's.

To clarify my original point, if a specific consistent group of opponents is only playing together, their "ELO" only reflects their standing amongst them. Essentially, for a strongest player in that group such a "private ELO" can be as high as desired, giving them trophy for the 1st ELO, for example. This is totally unfair and borderline cheating.

Yet ELOs are apparently deemed legitimately comparable between (a) players who can spare the time to play 10-20 instances of the same game per day, day after day, for years on end and (b) those who play a few games per week, across several different games. "Borderline cheating" seems a rather harsh judgement against those of us who are engaged in a normal intensity of play.

Having been forced to switch to the turn-based approach we've already found a problem. The starting interface is sufficiently confusing and non-obvious that we've already had players incur reputation hits. They clicked on "start" game, as there was no obvious "goto the game I was just invited to" button, and then had to immediately abandon a game with a stranger that had been accidentally and unwittingly created.

In UI design for online services, it's usual to consider a wide range of "user journeys" and this change seems to have removed a well-liked one while also forcing people into less intuitive sequences that don't work so naturally. This is unfortunate.

[Janabis]

De pire en pire. Plus on avance, plus j'ai l'impression que BGA prend un malin plaisir à supprimer les meilleures fonctionnalités du site pour nous blaser de jouer.
Quand je joue avec les amis, je ne joue QUE "sans limite de temps. Hors, depuis quelques jours, certains ne jouent plus à certains jeux ou avec certains amis parce que ce n'est plus sans limite de temps". Un ami est tombé à 46% de réputation à cause de cela est en est très affecté.
De toutes les modifications récentes, c'est vraiment la plus pourrie que j'ai vu. C'est peut-être dur comme mot, mais c'est dire a quel point cela me perturbe. Ce n'est pas mon genre, mais là, je suis vraiment en colère, car c'est un changement qui m'affecte personnellement & qui cause des soucis & des "tensions" au sein de mon groupe d'amis.
J'ai beau lire les arguments de ceux qui défendent ce changement, mais ils ne sont du tout convaincants. Certains même démontrent, à mon sens, que c'est une bêtise ...
Vraiment, je suis très très déçu ... & la trentaine de membres de mon groupe d'amis aussi, à l'unanimité ! Gros gros flop ...

[Fredact]

I just wish they'd at least left the no time limit for real-time with friends. Even if was only a premium feature.

We play together, like to talk to each other while we play , go get some coffee, answer the doorbell, check on the kids etc. None of us really care about the Karma, since we only play with each other, but that countdown clock is loud and annoying. But we also like to have it not in Training mode, as we like to accumulate the stats.

[Fredact]

Playing in no time limit mode allows us to socialize and enjoy each other's company without the stress of a time clock.

If you are socializing and enjoying each other's company, then it sounds like you are playing real time and likely finish your games on the day you start them. In this case using turn-based mode set to 1 move every 2 days will still let you do that. If someone is stressed by a clock that will not run out until two days after the game is over, then I'll recommend they explore meditation techniques.

I didn't know this work-around would work. I assumed you'd have to keep logging in and out. Does video work, if we set it to turn-based, but actually play in realtime?

[fluffbutter]

I think that taking this option of playing "no time limit" away is a serious downgrade to the gaming experience on BGA. I will stick to two points I haven't seen addressed so far:

1. How long do games in Training Mode last on the server before the game is automatically closed? From your FAQ page, you state:
"A real-time table is closed automatically if more than 4 hours have elapsed since its creation and if all players at this table are now offline.
A turn-based table is closed automatically if no move has been made in 40 days."
There is no mention of Training Mode games. If it's not at least as long as turn-based games, your suggestion to use Training Mode as a way to play games with no time limit is not adequate. If it is 40 days, then I take back my point.

2. The responses posted in this thread from the BGA admin have only been to restate the decision made. I would like to see a direct response to the comments and suggestions made in this thread. Some really good points are being made. You state on your team page (https://boardgamearena.com/team), "BGA is a community-based website." Currently the community is speaking up, which gives you the chance to follow through on your statement of being a "community-based website." Taking the time and effort to address our concerns, which are significantly numerous, would show signs of goodwill and that your word can be trusted. Give us solid responses to repeated suggestions, arguments, questions. Show gratitude for praises. Even if you say no, taking the time to "personalize" a response to the community would be a respectful thing to do.

[eugaet]

Adding my name to the chorus that dislikes this change.
My IRL friends and I only play at friends-only tables with no time limit and still like earning ELO (and gift points). Sometimes (due to life), a friend can't return to the table for a week or more. This is of course understandable (we all have jobs and families) and we never hold it against each other...and think BGA shouldn't hold it against players, either.
So either we switch exclusively to training mode (which we do use, but only when friends aren't familiar with a game), but don't earn ELO or gift points...or we use the "1 move every 2 days" speed setting and, while still earning ELO and gift points, have a clock hanging over our heads and rack up unavoidable time penalties on our profiles. For now, we'll be using the "1 move every 2 days" speed setting since it still gets us ELO and gift points, but neither of these are great options.
We like our friends-only games to be a stress-free zone and this is quite a move in the wrong direction. We certainly weren't lacking for more stress in our lives, but that's what this change introduces.

[DrNinjaV]

I want to add my voice to the request to bring back the "no time limit with friends" turn-based mode. I play a lot of Arena, as well many games with friends who take several turns a day. But then I have a couple of friends who are very casual player, and they might go for a week or 2 or 3 before showing back up to take a few turns. I don't mind their games sitting there unplayed. I know that when they show back up I will be happy that they are back. It's about the friendship and playing a social game while still being able to track ELO which we enjoy as friends as well. I believe if those couple of my friends who play intermittently were to see they were being marked as "out of time", they would likely stop playing all together.

[Partyqueen80]

One more voice who is missing the unlimited time not-training games..

If it´s not possible or unwanted to bring this mode back I would enjoy larger timespans or more "holidays" - e.g. 1 move per 14 days or maybe 100 days holiday...
I really sometimes enjoy playing slow and staying away from my phone or computer for several days without having to use my limited 4 days "holiday".