too much time updating on this site, I am leaving!

[Squachmo7]

Also, they don't let you have the extra goodies until you pay, and I won't pay unless I get the extra goodies, then I will pay.

[sourisdudesert]

Hi

Sorry but I don't get your point. Could you be more explicit? Thanks.

[Squachmo7]

the computer loads" or "updates" and takes too long in time, that is seconds or minutes of my time. Also the forcing of players to pay up front if they want to start certain games is aggravating. Other game sites do that on a voluntary basis and I DO contribute, if the site is good. But not being able to see my stats because I am not paying is just annoying. Anyway, it's moot because I am done with your site.

[sourisdudesert]

Well, it shouldn't take so long to load as there is no server issue at now so this is probably a bug with your config that you can troubleshoot from :

http://boardgamearena.com/troubleshoot

About paying : there are 92 games here and 90 are free to play. If you are ready to pay on a voluntary basis you probably should consider that paying here is a volunteer action too

[veme]

I think this is similar to how I feel about it, so I will try to explain why I feel the way I do, sourisdudesert.

The fact that there are some things on the site that are for paying customers only means that to a certain extent at least, you guys are in it for the money - not for providing the best possible experience to the most possible people. In other words, your business model is 'pay us enough and you can have good features', not 'if we make good features, people will pay us enough'.

This is fine of course, it is your site, but this rubs some people's morals the wrong way (mine included). I would be paying to support a site that excludes (poor) people from full participation unless they pay, a policy which makes the experience worse even for paying users, and which I do not believe in. I will still probably personally pay you someday when I have money (especially if you ever fix Hive... ), but I will do it grudgingly and against my instincts as I do not agree ethically with this policy. If everything on this site were free for everyone, I would already have been feeling guilty months ago about not having paid you guys; as it is now I have trouble convincing myself to do it at all.

The hidden ELO is especially silly to me, because I think it probably drives away more players than it makes in sales from people paying just to see it. I think almost all members are paying for other reasons, so why hide it? It just seems rude, and again, I have difficulties convincing myself to support a site with several policies that feel 'rude' to me.

[sourisdudesert]

Well... if we were here for the money, we would have turn this website in something like Candy Crush or Clash of Clans - or many other websites : we would have introduce something that gives incredible privileges to paying players, and make impossible for non-paying players to compete against them. This is definitly not our approach ...

There is no "we are here 100% for the money" versus "we are here to produce the best possible service". We are certainly here to produce the best possible service, and this would certainly be easier with more money, but we choose to give access to 95% of games and functions. This is a tradeoff of course. Maybe it's not the best one, but if we give access to ELO for free and loose half of the Club member, the quality of this service is certainly going de decrease a lot :/

[Oso]

I just will write one question:

- If BGA is "totally free" -in their options-, how many people will contribute?

Seriously?, we aren't child, we must recognize that nothing in this life is "free", if you take or get something free it's because another/others are paying for you.

[senatorhung]

if you are looking to just play games online, this is a fabulous site.

if you want to be more serious about improving your gameplay .. becoming a contributing member will allow you to become more competitive.

i see zero issue with the current BGA business model.

[Jest Phulin]

Let me preface my remarks by stating that I am not a BGA staff member, but I am a member.

In any group, there are those that say the group rules (written or unwritten) aren't good/fair/just/reasonable/etc. Those that say they are that way generally are the more vocal. Or, since actions speak louder than words, they may show their displeasure through the only reasonable action available to them -- leaving. If enough people leave, there may be reason to change the rules.

The actions of those that think the rules are at least tolerable in the case of BGA are to show support with money. Judging by the number of members on this site, it looks like enough people find the rules tolerable, and there is little reason to change them.

I've been on sites that are "free to everyone, but we'd like it if you contributed..." Those tended to turn into "look how big my e-peen is by how much I can show I contributed" or "hey, the site said it was free, so why should I be guilt-tripped into giving anything", with very few people in-between.

Historically, there have been two major issues with the current system: A) non-members can't see their ELO, and B) non-members can't start a few games.

A) Non-members can still see their numerical rank. Claiming a high ELO is fine, but if you really want to brag you have to say you are in the top xx players. Otherwise, just use ELO the way it was intended for this site -- finding other players with a skill level similar to yours, which is assumed to lead to more enjoyable games.

B) There is no game on BGA that non-members cannot PLAY. Yes, there are a few that they can't start, but they can still join tables of these games created by others.

Of course, I'm often reminded of a line from a movie whenever I hear too many people saying things like "this site should be free/healthcare should be free/education should be free/food should be free/water should be free/etc., etc.". "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

[veme]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that how it is done here is the worst thing ever or anything; I'm just explaining my feelers because an admin seemed interested and I thought they were relevant. I love this site, and capitalism, and I did not mean to imply that the admins are profit hounds, because obviously they are not. And I'm not like the original poster who is leaving because of some of these things, but the more people leave, the worse the site is for everyone, even paying users.

I am just letting you know that there is a demographic that feels this way (it may only be me though ). I need to feel like I am getting something for my money - the current system just makes me not want to pay you until you guilt me into it by actually doing enough improvements I give a darn about... so far the tally is like, .5, and required way too much moaning and groaning on my part to even get y'all to take me seriously. I don't give a crap about seeing my stats, I just want to be able to play my favorite games by the actual rules (and, god help me, someday have confirm buttons to prevent misclicks in the games I play - no rush). Whereas, like I said, if this place were free across the board I would already feel like a jerk for not paying.

Certainly it would be bad if you opened up ELO and then nobody bought memberships anymore; my point is that I suspect very few people are joining just to see ELO - but I have no statistics or anything, so who knows? Maybe I am just being optimistic. And, yes you can usually find players of your approximate skill level with the ELO levels we have now (average, good, etc.), but you could be much more discerning if ELO were revealed. The average group in particular has an enormous range of ELOs, but even in the others you never really know what you are getting. Revealing ELOs to non-paying members potentially makes the service better for paying members by allowing a more fine-tuned choice of opponents. Of course if this is offset by a large reduction in memberships, it is not worth it.