Undo Allows People to Get Extra Information

[sprockitz]

In some games I've seen people abusing the undo function...or a failed undo function in that you are allowed to undo a move that reveals secret information.

For example in The Builders Antiquity and Middle Ages you can undo after drawing a card and see the next card (you put the card back but get to see the next card in the deck)

Also Hack Trick you can undo after asking for the sum of cards and get your token back (but you still know the sum of cards)

[Een]

It should not be the case, the guidelines for developers explicitly state that there should be no undoing of an action revealing hidden information.

So if that happens it's a bug and it should be reported as a bug for those games.

[eoc]

Here's a report closed as "not a bug" by BGA admins: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=7939

You might consider making the "No undo" option the default, or otherwise implement the draw piles as face-up (so the upcoming card would be visible to all players at all times). The current defaults make for a rather bad gameplay experience.

[sourisdudesert]

The current defaults make for a rather bad gameplay experience.

Sorry but in the case of "The builders", this has been explicitly discussed and agreed with the publishers, and everyone agreed to adapt the original game rules to make the adaptation more fluid + to give the option to keep the original rules if preferred. The game designer himself agreed that the additional information given is insignificant in most case. If you really want to stick to the orignal rules, I would advise to play only with the undo option off.

[sprockitz]

Thanks for the info. Disappointed about builders to see the game designer doesn’t think the info is significant...I disagree there. And as the majority of top rates players are doing it every turn they must disagree too. Sure one turn by accident seeing an extra card might not help but every turn intentionally doing it adds up to a substantial advantage...specifically in 2 player games where you are trying to deny your opponent that much needed card.

For hack trick i will make a bug report

Edit added to bug report already there for hack trick, but don’t think the game is maintained anymore. At least that one also can turn undo off.