Spades - improved options to avoid sloppy players

[happyisaak]

One issue with Spades is there are players who heavily underbid. The game becomes boring, just a loose play of who gets the bags. Players who play just for ELO bid low and drag the game out.... no fun!

Could you make a "skip 3+ bags" option?
This is a common option IRL where if the collective bid is 10 or less, the hand is skipped. Teams get their bids but the round is not played. Only exception is with a nil bid.
EG: Team A bids 5. Team B bids 5. Total bid: 10/13. Hand is skipped. Both teams get 50p.

This would make it so underbid hands aren't played out. Players who like this kind of play could play that option, while the rest of us get a more fun play.

Alternately - or additionally! - could we have 5 bags = -50? This would also help with this problem!

THANK YOU FOR MAKING SUCH A GREAT SITE!
- happyisaak

[Titan5top1t]

So, happy to see someone that agrees with me.... Sadly, these underbids are highly ranked in arena. And they get nasty when you call them out. My daughter had this happen to her in an arena game. After twenty minutes, and six hands of 10 and 9 total bids, she made the statement. "If you are throwing away Aces and King in the first five tricks you are underbidding." And the table went nuts, They also told her that she was dumb for not using a sheet to keep track of the cards that where played.

If you can keep track of the 52 cards in your head that's one thing but using a sheet is just wrong. Never played anywhere that allowed that. This is also why the games are so long.

[happyisaak]

I agree, it's very annoying. If the option were available, players who like that sort of play could keep it and the rest of us could play a decent game!!

[GRDavies]

One issue with Spades is there are players who heavily underbid. The game becomes boring, just a loose play of who gets the bags. Players who play just for ELO bid low and drag the game out.... no fun!

Could you make a "skip 3+ bags" option?
This is a common option IRL where if the collective bid is 10 or less, the hand is skipped. Teams get their bids but the round is not played. Only exception is with a nil bid.
EG: Team A bids 5. Team B bids 5. Total bid: 10/13. Hand is skipped. Both teams get 50p.

This would make it so underbid hands aren't played out. Players who like this kind of play could play that option, while the rest of us get a more fun play.

Alternately - or additionally! - could we have 5 bags = -50? This would also help with this problem!

THANK YOU FOR MAKING SUCH A GREAT SITE!
- happyisaak

I like the option, but this would give the dealer have a powerfull advantage. I think I like to play a positive game, as in to win you must go forward (and if possible in the less hands the better), but it's not always in the card or the cards are dealed lobsided. The power of the dealer is that he can decide if the hand is played or not and can safely choose a number of tricks with a guaranteed payout (10 minus the tablebids at the moment). To each his own, but if there are complains that people cheat (with writing down and such), now you give them a tool.

To avoid misuse of your suggestion, teams get halve points rounded up to the next tenfold.

[NeanderthalMan]

There may be some "sloppy" players but for those experienced, bagging is a legitimate tactic that can be countered by setting or sluffing off to make the opponents eat their underbid; either incentivizes tighter bidding. Punishing underbidders is one of the nice subtleties of Spades. Good teams are able to navigate underbidding opponents by doubling up winners and are usually nonplussed to take a few bags to set. If your opponents' hands are that weak, you'd probably prefer they bag than call nil. Alternatively, perhaps you (and everyone) are bidding too conservatively which increases the number of bags in a given hand.

Betting nil and bagging are both useful catch-up mechanics to help overcome mediocre cards. The former is specific to the hand but the latter is a longer play. Underbidding and sluffing helps balance the fact that one side can get significantly better hands. These features are what make Spades a better and more dynamic game than Whist. To eliminate or reduce that capacity would be to make spades more on rails to favor those advantaged by the deal.

[marknibb]

Isn't the correct answer to not consider others bids, but to properly bid your own hand? Underbids cost some players 150-200 points in a game

[Scott5]

I agree mark 100%

[Lorekeeper]

My family play a version of Spades where you don't recieve any points if you do not make your bid. That really encourages people to make their bid.

[azcats2002]

It sounds like people who complain about 10 bids in the thread do not understand how these bids happen.

The stronger the player, the more they understand that you cant bid on kings queens and even aces in certain situations.
Weaker players often dont understand when voids are likely and they overbid.

Beginner players will play more 12 and 13 bids. Experts will play more 10 and 11 bids.

The argument made earlier in the thread where the player complained about aces being thrown away on 10 bids is from someone who doesnt fully understand how to play 10 bids.

There is no rule that says you have to win tricks on cards you bid on. On 10 bids, people will toss AKQJ away because they know they will be forced to win with 789s.

If you are leading aces on 10 bids, you will not be a very successful player.


Also, most people really do not fully understand how to bid in the game of spades.

A strong player will never bid their hand or “make their bid”. The goal is to bid based on the score and position on the table.

You should bid your hand, but what is the best possible outcome.

There are many times i bid 5 when i have only 2 winners. And there are times when i bid 2 when i have 5 possible winners.


If you are only bidding without context you will cost your team lots of points (in missed points or causing the team to be set)

[FrankJones]

If my team has 5 tricks and bids 5m whereas the other team bids 5 and has 8, why would we want to skip the hand? This is a major part of the strategy.

Also, how has no one else mentioned the other major problem with this proposed rule?

If my team has made a 5 bid, and the other team closes out the bidding, and that player has a terrible hand, he or she can just bid 5 to neutralize the hand with no penalty.