Back / undo button?

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Martyrs
Posts: 5
Joined: 16 June 2021, 21:25

Back / undo button?

Post by Martyrs »

Maybe I've missed it but Yucata for example has a "undo" button for moves in games and also a "reset your whole turn" button. This is extremely helpful when you're just learning a game.

Those buttons only work when it wouldn't be "cheating", you can't look at a card or roll a die an then "undo".

Does Boardgamearena have such buttons? If not? Why? Can they be implemented?
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el cosimo
Posts: 201
Joined: 21 May 2020, 11:45

Re: Back / undo button?

Post by el cosimo »

Depend on the game if it is implemented. Every game can be different because how the developer want it. Sometimes you have the choice to confirm or restart. Sometimes you have a little timer before auto confirm (you need to decide to restart in that time).

Games depend on luck don’t get undo
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Jest Phulin
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Joined: 08 July 2013, 21:50

Re: Back / undo button?

Post by Jest Phulin »

Martyrs wrote: 21 June 2021, 06:28 If not? Why? Can they be implemented?
The why depends on the developer, the framework games are developed in, and the history of BGA.

From the developer perspective: creating an undo is a significant amount of extra work. In an effort to get a playable version rolled out as quickly as possible, this addition is sometimes omitted. It is suggested that all new games have this feature, but there is little incentive to add it to older games.

From the framework perspective: Game pieces being displayed work very similarly to physical game pieces: they exist in one area of the screen, and are moved to new places. Undoing a move requires reversing all the movement that has been done so far, or reloading the game box and moving the pieces from off screen onto their places.

From the history of BGA perspective: BGA was originally designed as a full monitor/mouse browser interface. The rise of mobile devices was not supported, and the cries of "my fingers are thick and I hit the wrong area of the screen, I need an undo" were not welcomed. This is changing, but still causes some resistance to implementation of an undo.

Then, too, there are issues with clock management (If I undo my turn, do I get any extra time?) and the irritation of players trying several moves to see what the game state is after each one. The thought is that players should plan their complicated moves, not make others wait on movement and undos. Also, computers can't tell if a move is a misclick or not; it's easier at a physical table to notice.

As far as implementation: yes, virtually any game could have an undo/reset implemented. However, all development is by volunteers, and it is difficult to find a volunteer to go through old code (especially someone else's) to implement a feature that is not needed.
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Martyrs
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Joined: 16 June 2021, 21:25

Re: Back / undo button?

Post by Martyrs »

Thanks for the look behind the scenes. I imagined it being way more easy as for example the board state before my move is A and after my move it's B and that you could easily just "undo" by deleting B and resetting to A.

I also expected a "back" button being part of BGA's framework not a programming part in each game.

So thanks for clarifying this! I'd still love to have this function in every game :D
MoiMagnus
Posts: 356
Joined: 17 March 2020, 20:15

Re: Back / undo button?

Post by MoiMagnus »

Martyrs wrote: 21 June 2021, 21:25 Thanks for the look behind the scenes. I imagined it being way more easy as for example the board state before my move is A and after my move it's B and that you could easily just "undo" by deleting B and resetting to A.
Something you can already note if you watch a replay of a game is that BGA does not store game states (other than the current one), but rather the sequence of moves.

If you ask BGA to display "show this replay at move 75", it will initialise the game and apply the first 75 moves. If you then ask "show this replay at move 80", it will add 5 additional moves. If you then ask "show this replay at move 70", it will start back from scratch and play 70 moves because it doesn't know how to go backward.
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Meeplelowda
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Joined: 14 March 2020, 10:31

Re: Back / undo button?

Post by Meeplelowda »

Jest Phulin wrote: 21 June 2021, 11:50 the irritation of players trying several moves to see what the game state is after each one. The thought is that players should plan their complicated moves, not make others wait on movement and undos.
Wherever I play with someone who is known to do this....a lot....I silently cheer when the game doesn't allow undos.
Play Now lobby 4ever! https://boardgamearena.com/lobby
Just Keep Climbing
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Joined: 25 April 2021, 23:07

Re: Back / undo button?

Post by Just Keep Climbing »

Meeplelowda wrote: 21 June 2021, 23:58
Jest Phulin wrote: 21 June 2021, 11:50 the irritation of players trying several moves to see what the game state is after each one. The thought is that players should plan their complicated moves, not make others wait on movement and undos.
Wherever I play with someone who is known to do this....a lot....I silently cheer when the game doesn't allow undos.
An undo button should be implemented anywhere where it would not be considered cheating. The amount of time a player has should not be reset if he/she chooses to undo a move. This should encourage players to not undo more than what is absolutely necessary.
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