the option to give up the game / ein Spiel aufgeben

[Honk-the-Dump]

English und unten Deutsch

Hello,
there seems to be an option to give up the game.

The winner "wins" then, but the final scoring of the points can no longer be reasonably determined.
This means: the winner may receive fewer points.

A loser with 100 Elo points can basically give up every game because he can no longer slip below it.

It's fun to finish a scenario. You should give that to the winner.

I find "giving up" very unfair.

My suggestion for improvement:
- the "worst case" is calculated and the game is lost accordingly
- the quitter gets negative karma points, just like when someone folds
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hallo,
es gibt anscheinend die Option "Spiel aufgeben".

Der Gewinner "gewinnt" dann zwar, aber die Endwertung der Punkte kann nicht mehr vernünftig ermittelt werden.
Das bedeutet: der Gewinner erhält möglicherweise weniger Punkte.

Ein Verlierer mit 100 Elo-Punkten kann im Grunde jedes Spiel aufgeben, weil er nicht mehr darunter rutschen kann.

Es macht Spass ein Szenario zuende zu spielen. Man sollte das dem Gewinner schon gönnen.

Ich finde das "Aufgeben" sehr unfair.

Mein Vorschlag zur Verbesserung:
- es wird das "worst case" berechnet und dem entsprechend wird das Spiel verloren
- der Aufgebende bekommt negative Karma Punkte, so, wie wenn jemand aussteigt

[Jest Phulin]

The final score has absolutely no bearing on ELO. A score of 1v100 and a score of 50v51 have the exact same ELO adjustment. When a game is conceded, the full ELO is awarded. There is no need to compute a score.

Also, check the discussion forums and all the other threads in this forum about why it is a good idea to allow conceding. And all the reasons why it is a bad idea....

[Honk-the-Dump]

Some people seem to like it - others find it annoying

In my case, the loser had ended the game 30 seconds before the end. What's good about that?
It's a matter of respect.
Some apparently can't stand the word "lost".

Please examples why "give up" be good?

Where does this "give up" function even exist? I haven't seen anything yet.

At least with more than 2 players, the calculation after "giving up" is not correct.
As I said - the solution would be: The "give up / looser" gets the "worst case" - the winners get the "best case". And can keep playing.

----------------------------------------------

Die einen finden das anscheinend gut - die anderen stört das eben

In meinem Fall hatte der Verlierer 30 Sekunden vor Ende das Spiel beendet. Was soll daran gut sein?
Es ist eine Frage des Respekts.
Einige können anscheinend nicht das Wort "verloren" ertragen.

Bitte Beispiele, warum "aufgeben" gut sein sein?

Wo gibt es überhaupt diese Funktion "aufgeben"? Ich habe noch nichts gesehen.

Zumindest bei mehr als 2 Spielern erfolgt die Berechnung nach "Aufgeben" nicht korrekt.
Wie gesagt - die Lösung wäre: Der "Aufgeber" bekommt das "worst case" - die Gewinner erhalten das "best case". Und dürfen weiterspielen.

[Jest Phulin]

The option to concede the game is in the user menu, waving a white flag. It is only available for 2-player games, so the statement that calculations are incorrect for larger games does not apply.

Note that I am strictly speaking about the concede option. One can always just quit the game, and that is an entirely different matter. Quitting the game comes with karma penalties, conceding does not.

As far as scoring in a multi-player game: there is no good option. Since many games have hidden end-of-game scoring, using the current score is not accurate. Determining what best possible score could be would require extensive extra programming. And, again, score does not affect ELO calculations.

I do not want to side-track this thread with reasons why conceding (even at the last minute) is a good or bad idea. There are two very active threads in the Discussions forum about that very topic right now, and it is a subject that is often discussed.

[Honk-the-Dump]

Today again:
After one made his last move, he then gave up while I made my last move.
Why not let someone make their last move?
It was again only about 30 seconds to complete the scenario.

Suggestion:
You should be able to exclude the option, then everyone is free to play with or without "giving up".

Anyway, I don't want to play with people like that. But you don't find out beforehand.

It's not about someone having to be there pointlessly for half a game length.
It's about 30 seconds, 1 minute...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Heute wieder:
Nachdem einer seinen letzten Zug gemacht hatte, hatte er dann aufgegeben, während ich meinen letzten Zug machte.
Warum lässt man jemenden nicht seinen letzten Zug machen?
Es ging wieder nur um 30 Sekunden, um das Szenario zu beenden.

Vorschlag:
Man sollte die Option ausschließen können, dann ist es jeden freigestellt, ob er mit oder ohne "aufgeben" spielt.

Ich will jedenfalls nicht mit solchen Leuten spielen. Aber man erfährt das nicht vorher.

Es geht nicht darum, dass jemand eine halbe Spiellänge sinnlos dabei sein muss.
Es geht um 30 Sekunden, 1 Minute....

[KenFin1]

Agree it's stupid conceding in the last moment. It just needs a "no-concede in last turn" or after 95% played setting.

Conceding overall though is sensible. some games need it.

What annoys me is having to play 50% of a dead rubber game just to be able to concede. That is annoying in some games and if there's an emergency and I need to leave I should be able to just give the opponent the win rather than have to beg to swap to turnbased or abort so I don't get penalised. The flip is deterring false accounts and cheating so 50% play is set to stop that. There is no perfect solution. The status quo is the best compromise, it just needs the last minute concede preventing as you say.

[Blacktango]

If I have an emergency, I don’t really mind to just say sorry to other players, and take the penalty.
It’s annoying for the others, especially with long games, so it seems ok to me.

This is very worth and since it happens very rarely, my karma will be fine a few games after.

[Ceaseless]

There is nothing special about making your finishing move or not, the outcome is the same. If anything the site's concession rules are far too strict, not letting you concede before a 50% marker when said marker is just nonsense and has little bearing on the actual development of an individual game. But if the game's outcome is already determined, conceding makes perfect sense, saving time from being wasted playing out a finished game.

[Honk-the-Dump]

The next player gave up 5 seconds (!!) before the end.
*
How much time is that supposed to save? If you want to "save" time, it's best not to play !

It's about seeing the end picture and understanding the final scoring.
It's people who want to look at the overall picture again and improve strategies if necessary.

Suggestion:
Creating an option to opt out of giving up. (as well as other options)
Then everyone can decide for themselves who to play with.


-----------------------------------------------------------------

Der nächste Spieler hat 5 Sekunden (!!) vor Ende aufgegeben.
*
Welche Zeitersparnis soll das sein? Wenn Sie Zeit "sparen" wollen, dann spielen Sie am besten gar nicht.

Es geht darum, das Endbild zu sehen und die Schlusswertung nachzuvollziehen.
Es nunmal Menschen, die wollen sich das Gesamtbild nochmal anschauen und gegebenenfalls Strategien verbessern.

Vorschlag:
Schaffung einer Option, das Aufgeben auszuschließen. (so wie es auch andere Optionen gibt)
Dann kann jeder selber entscheiden, mit wem er spielt.

*moderator edit: the Forums are a place for general discussion, not to call out specific players or matches.

[Honk-the-Dump]

Next one "giving up"..... only 20 Seconds bevor regular finishing the game !!!

*

So I can't see the counting of the different moves.

Its a pain.
I don't want play with this players.

*moderator edit: the Forums are a place for general discussion, not to call out specific players or matches.