New to platform, not to game

[detlefchef11]

Hey all, just started playing here but I love the game and I've played a bunch at home and on Steam. I've got a few questions:

1) in games where the big 4 aren't removed from the deck, is it poor etiquette to play them in the 1st round? That's basically an understanding in games started with matchups on discord. Just curious how it's handled here.

2) why does the game stop to allow your opponent to take advantage of things that could totally wait until the beginning of their next turn (or before the EOR if it is at that point)? I get it in situations where everyone can draw from the feeder, because that has to happen before anything else that might affect what is in there. But free eggs or free food from the supply can absolutely wait and won't bog the flow down.

Thanks and I look forward to playing some of you!

[pjt33]

1) in games where the big 4 aren't removed from the deck, is it poor etiquette to play them in the 1st round? That's basically an understanding in games started with matchups on discord. Just curious how it's handled here.

I don't recall ever seeing any hint of that here.

2) why does the game stop to allow your opponent to take advantage of things that could totally wait until the beginning of their next turn (or before the EOR if it is at that point)? I get it in situations where everyone can draw from the feeder, because that has to happen before anything else that might affect what is in there. But free eggs or free food from the supply can absolutely wait and won't bog the flow down.

If you activate an "Everyone gets food from the supply" ability, it doesn't pause. For free eggs, there are scenarios where waiting would give you extra information which would affect what you do with the first decision. Trying to anticipate all of those scenarios would be horribly complicated and probably introduce a lot of bugs to be worked out.

[detlefchef11]

I'm in a game right now where someone has a kingfisher so they get a free fish if someone plays a bird in the wetlands. That person took their turn, then someone else played a bird in the wetlands, then my turn waited for them to claim their fish before I could go. No reason for that. They can't use it until their turn anyway. And the rest of us knew they had it if they wanted it.

And, what intel could be gained if they waited to award an egg from either a pink power or pileated or bunting? I can see their board. I know if they have birds with the appropriate nest and whether or not they have room for more eggs?

[pjt33]

And, what intel could be gained if they waited to award an egg from either a pink power or pileated or bunting? I can see their board. I know if they have birds with the appropriate nest and whether or not they have room for more eggs?

One scenario would be if you allow them to lay in a cup nest and the person after you might allow them to lay in a scrape nest (edit: or maybe even a bird of yours to the left in the same habitat, so that you can respond to their choice). If they have a wildcard nest with one available space and a cup nest, and for round scoring they want an egg in the wildcard nest, then knowing whether or not they get to lay in a scrape nest affects their decision on where to put the cup nest egg.

[detlefchef11]

So, in other words. You're saying if I have a lazuli bunting to the right of, say a grasshopper sparrow that allows me to lay an additional egg, where I lay that egg might be affected by where my opponents lay theirs? I suppose that's a possibility. But I stand by the free fish on the kingfisher that just happened

[Mathew5000]

In turn-based games the kingfisher, when triggered, should immediately give a fish, without the player having to click "yes I want the fish". Because why would you ever refuse it? You can vote for https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=71923 but it's already the highest-voted Wingspan suggestion.

I don't like the idea of the once-between-turns food and eggs being deferred until the player's next turn. (There are numerous situations where this could affect game play, especially near the end of a round. And aside from that, it could be confusing for players.)

[detlefchef11]

So, I'm gonna take your word(s) for it that it matters that you get to use your pink power to lay eggs immediately. Steam gives it to you at the beginning of your next turn and in the significant amount of games I've played there, have never thought "I would have acted differently with my remaining brown powers had player x spent his egg otherwise."

There are a few assumptions here. 1) all players will maximize their chances to get EOR goals. In other words, it's safe to assume that, if it's number of birds with that nest and at least 1 egg, they will lay it on one that doesn't yet have one. If the next EOR is for another type of nest, they MAY lay it on a star nest to get ready for that, but that won't matter for at least 5 turns.

With that in mind, it would only matter if you had other birds that you got to lay eggs. But even still, even that would only matter if your opponent failed to maximize their chances for the EOR goal.

And, if you want to get technical, if you're saying it matters, then the player who initiates, say a Pileated woodpecker, should get to lay one egg, then everyone else lays 1, and then they lay their second. But it doesn't work that way here. You lay 2 and then wait for everyone to lay their one. Even though it says everyone lays one egg on a cavity nest and you lay an additional one on a 2nd bird. The wording implies you lay your 2nd one after everyone lays one.

I guess what I'm asking is, if this is actually an issue worth holding the game up for, or is it just a theoretical issue that COULD matter even if it really doesn't in practice?

[Mathew5000]

Pjt33 gave an example earlier; here's a different one. I'm assuming we're playing with the green goal card. Suppose everyone has 1 cube remaining and I will be last to act in this round. The goal for this round is eggs in rock nests; the goal for next round will be eggs in grassland. Now if a player takes the lay eggs action and I have bronzed cowbird, letting me lay one egg on a bird with a bowl nest, I might have to decide between a star nest in wetland (counting toward this round's goal) or a bowl nest in grassland (counting toward next round's goal).

If I'm allowed to wait until my turn before placing the egg, by that time I will be able to see whether I already have first place in this round's goal. Or maybe I'm in second place, but far enough behind that I can't catch up to first. Either way, I can safely put the egg where it will help me next round.

That's one scenario where the deferment would be a big advantage to me and a disadvantage to the other players. Another scenario is if it's near the end of the game, and the round 4 goal is eggs in platform nests while I have a bonus card giving me a point for every bird with at least 4 eggs.

I agree that usually it makes no difference, whether I have to place place my "pink power" egg when triggered or on my next turn. And I also agree, of course, that deferring as you propose would speed things up in turn-based games. But in certain cases near the end of a round, it can make a big difference to strategy and it could even change who wins the game.

As for pileated woodpecker, in principle how I think it ought to work playing online is, everyone places their egg (or eggs in the case of the activating player) simultaneously, so nobody can see where other players are putting their eggs before deciding where to put their own. Ideally though, if an opponent has pileated woodpecker, I should have a setting where I can pre-select the bird I want to lay an egg if pileated woodpecker is activated.

[detlefchef11]

I concede. Y'all are right

[detlefchef11]

I will say the I appreciate the fact that if you have one egg on one bird and you play a bird that costs an egg, it just assumes you want to use that egg and just does it. Steam makes you select the egg even though you don't have a choice.