Tichu Developer Update - Looking for Feedback!

Forum rules
Please DO NOT POST BUGS on this forum. Please report (and vote) bugs on : https://boardgamearena.com/bugs

Do you like the updates?

Fantastic. Can't wait for the release.
19
58%
Nice. Sounds useful.
10
30%
Meh. Not much of an improvement.
3
9%
Arg. Don't release that crap!
1
3%
 
Total votes: 33

User avatar
dashwood314
Posts: 18
Joined: 26 July 2023, 12:42

Tichu Developer Update - Looking for Feedback!

Post by dashwood314 »

Hey everyone,

I have only recently joined the BGA community, mainly with the purpose of playing Tichu. But I soon realized that playing Tichu on BGA has some quirks, and as a web developer I had an interest in fixing them. Apparently the original Tichu developers are not active anymore, so I am in the process of "taking over" and already have an updated Tichu version that will hopefully be rolled out in 1-2 weeks. While preparing for that I would love to get some feedback on the changes I made and ideally find some volunteers for testing.

What has changed? (a detailed developer oriented list can be found here: https://github.com/bro314/tichu/commits)

Delays were removed or decreased: Virtually everything that happened came along with an artificial 1 second delay for not good reason. For example each "no bet" event had such a delay without any benefit. Such delays were removed. The delay after a "pass" was reduced to 300 ms, which makes the game much quicker and behave more like other card games on BGA. Details: https://github.com/bro314/tichu/commit/ ... 0d5f4e1c11

All action buttons get locked or removed immediately when clicking an action button. A lot of players had reported that there is high chance for misclicks, because you don't know whether a button click has registered or not. Tichu is now using the standard "lock" mechanism that also most other BGA games are using: You can only click another action button once the action has been processed by the server and the updates have been applied in the browser.

Nicer colors: The yellow panel and the red border were change to be slightly transparent. The box shadow of cards is smaller. The pass card looks a little nicer. The selection in "My Hand" is done by pushing cards up instead of giving them a yellow border.

Nicer player info at the table: Added points next to hand card count. Bigger font for name and counts. Better text overflow for long names.

Improved table layout: The overall table layout is now based on a css grid layout and should behave nicer for all screen sizes, both for list and square table. The "current trick" link and the Mahjong indicator also have a clearer positioning in that new layout grid.

Responsive card overlap: The overlap of the cards is now based on how many cards are displayed and how large the container is, and changes reactively. That allows nice resize behavior, but especially helps to establish smaller areas for played cards in the square table layout: You only need much space, if a lot of cards are played together, which happens rarely. So small overlap most of the time, large overlap rarely, and overall not such a large container is needed.

Fixed buttons above "My Hand": A lot of players have asked for fixed buttons close to "My Hand". Done! The most important buttons were moved into a button row above "My Hand". The "Tichu" button is always "out of the way" to the far right. :-) The blue user preference links has been moved from above the hand to below the hand.

Often a "play bomb" button would should even if the player did not have a bomb. This has been fixed.


Here are some screenshots of the same game situation from the perspective of four different players with different layouts and screen sizes: https://imgur.com/a/xQvBVrl


Please let me know in this thread, if you have concerns about any of the changes. That would allow me to fix these issues before rolling out the new version.

Please use the BGA bug tracker for voting on or discussing existing bugs and creating new ones: https://boardgamearena.com/bugs?game=1237. I hope to get around to also fixing some other stuff, for example allowing "auto-collect" in real-time games.

* section removed by Admin *
User avatar
Thomas
Posts: 364
Joined: 10 January 2012, 14:37

Re: Tichu Developer Update - Looking for Feedback!

Post by Thomas »

Thanks a lot to take care of the Tichu implementation as a volunteer developer. That is great!

Looking at your list, you have done many improvements. Thanks a lot! And your screenshot looks realy nice, can't wait for your update to become live.

But I'm not sure if showing the "bomb" button all the time was really a bug. If you only display the "bomb" button, when the player has a card combination that can be played as a bomb, this would be a hint. In real life the player has to recognice it by themself. (It is the same kind of help that other game implementations offer by displaying the number of cards left in the deck or pile). Maybe this should be a game option to turn on or off.

By the way: There are many displayed texts (especially in the game log) that does not use the BGA translation mechanism, so that the community cannot translate these terms. Is it possible to fix this? for details please see https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=78193
User avatar
Bellum
Posts: 3
Joined: 09 June 2017, 19:33

Re: Tichu Developer Update - Looking for Feedback!

Post by Bellum »

Thank you! I especially look forward to more responsive button presses.

I have two change requests related to tables: I would like to see whether a table is randomly assigned teams or otherwise without having to load the table page. And, I’d like the default team assignment to be “Random”. People can manually change their own tables how they like, but I am a believer that random teams makes for a stronger community of players.

A couple notes about the bomb button:

I agree with Thomas that the bomb but should always be shown. Players should recognize bombs without a hint.

Playing a bomb should be possible as players proceed with play (passing, playing, or before collecting), but this is often not possible do to what feels like website lag. Perhaps the improved button responsiveness will adjusts how this feels in the future. It’s a challenging problem because during the “collect” phase, it literally is an intended feature of the game that a bomb player is racing the collector. Perhaps a “strongly considering a bomb play” button could work. It would reset everyone’s “Automatic pass” press and add 3 seconds delay to the passing player. The existing winning card player would remain unaffected, the collector would still be racing the bomb player the moment the turn ticked over to them. Probably way too clunky of a solution, but I am just spitballing. Are other players experiencing this problem too? I’d be curious to know what solutions you might have.
User avatar
dashwood314
Posts: 18
Joined: 26 July 2023, 12:42

Re: Tichu Developer Update - Looking for Feedback!

Post by dashwood314 »

Thomas wrote: 07 August 2023, 21:56 But I'm not sure if showing the "bomb" button all the time was really a bug. If you only display the "bomb" button, when the player has a card combination that can be played as a bomb, this would be a hint. [...] Maybe this should be a game option to turn on or off.
It was bug in the sense of that the developer had originally meant to hide the button, if you don't have a bomb. I have basically just changed "0" to 0 in one code location, which allowed the code to properly interpret that value as "false".

But I agree with you. It might be better (and less controversial), if we just stick to showing the button all the time. Note that if you were refreshing the game page during the game, then the bomb button would only show, if you have a bomb. I will disable that then.

I am not sure whether a game option is worthwhile to add. That would need to be requested in the bug tracker and collect sufficiently many votes to be considered.
Thomas wrote: 07 August 2023, 21:56 There are many displayed texts (especially in the game log) that does not use the BGA translation mechanism, so that the community cannot translate these terms. Is it possible to fix this? for details please see https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=78193
Yeah, I think that should not be too hard to do. And I hope that I will get to that in the coming weeks.
User avatar
dashwood314
Posts: 18
Joined: 26 July 2023, 12:42

Re: Tichu Developer Update - Looking for Feedback!

Post by dashwood314 »

Bellum wrote: 08 August 2023, 05:11 I have two change requests related to tables: I would like to see whether a table is randomly assigned teams or otherwise without having to load the table page. And, I’d like the default team assignment to be “Random”. People can manually change their own tables how they like, but I am a believer that random teams makes for a stronger community of players.
I assume that you are talking about the lobby page? https://imgur.com/a/ZJEy129

Showing "random" there and making it the default option sounds reasonable. Would you mind opening a feature request for that? That would be great! https://boardgamearena.com/bugs?game=1237

Note that I am typically using the game page instead of the lobby: https://imgur.com/a/mGwVnAl

On that page at least the last chosen option is remembered. So for me it always shows "random" by default. You can also click on waiting tables there and see the selected options. Maybe that is a workaround for you while your feature request is not yet implemented.
Bellum wrote: 08 August 2023, 05:11 Playing a bomb should be possible as players proceed with play (passing, playing, or before collecting), but this is often not possible do to what feels like website lag. Perhaps the improved button responsiveness will adjusts how this feels in the future. It’s a challenging problem because during the “collect” phase, it literally is an intended feature of the game that a bomb player is racing the collector. Perhaps a “strongly considering a bomb play” button could work. It would reset everyone’s “Automatic pass” press and add 3 seconds delay to the passing player. The existing winning card player would remain unaffected, the collector would still be racing the bomb player the moment the turn ticked over to them. Probably way too clunky of a solution, but I am just spitballing. Are other players experiencing this problem too? I’d be curious to know what solutions you might have.
Yeah, let's see how this feels with the new timing and the fixed buttons.

I don't think the short passing delays should be an issue, because if players quickly pass, then you can still play the bomb. So that should not hurt the player that intends to play a bomb.

The collecting phase is interesting. I was thinking that maybe (in real-time play at least) it is best to auto collect after 2 seconds (exact amount of time to be discussed). Then the collecting player cannot outsmart the bombing player by clicking faster on the button. The collecting player does not have to click anything. And the bombing player should have sufficient time.
User avatar
ufm
Posts: 2039
Joined: 06 January 2017, 08:38

Re: Tichu Developer Update - Looking for Feedback!

Post by ufm »

In fact, the current 'bomb button' has a critical flaw: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=141142
For example, check the moves of this table: https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=372311549
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deejinlondon
Posts: 19
Joined: 01 December 2020, 12:12

Re: Tichu Developer Update - Looking for Feedback!

Post by deejinlondon »

Hi Dashwood,

What do you mean exactly by fixed buttons?
Also there are little message boxes that appear to explain the function of buttons/tabs and they inconveniently appear over the button/tab itself, could you move them below or above the button/tabs?
This request might be related to layout, but would it be possible for you to provide more flexibility options in how you can arrange the cards in your hand ?
Valdamarr
Posts: 8
Joined: 17 July 2023, 06:37

Re: Tichu Developer Update - Looking for Feedback!

Post by Valdamarr »

Hi. nice to see some attention given to tichu. I don't like that when you click on a game link when someone has invited you that it takes me to the Tichu game page instead of the lobby or the table page so that I can see what table I am being invited to. In my opinion, changing this would be better.
User avatar
dashwood314
Posts: 18
Joined: 26 July 2023, 12:42

Re: Tichu Developer Update - Looking for Feedback!

Post by dashwood314 »

ufm wrote: 08 August 2023, 10:08 In fact, the current 'bomb button' has a critical flaw: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=141142
For example, check the moves of this table: https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=372311549
Please report this here: https://boardgamearena.com/bugs?game=1237

And provide the number of the move with the incorrect behavior. Thanks!
User avatar
dashwood314
Posts: 18
Joined: 26 July 2023, 12:42

Re: Tichu Developer Update - Looking for Feedback!

Post by dashwood314 »

deejinlondon wrote: 08 August 2023, 10:40 What do you mean exactly by fixed buttons?
"Fixed" in the sense that each button has a fixed position on the game panel, instead of all the buttons replacing each other in the header bar. Users had issues with buttons they wanted to click, and milliseconds before they clicked the button was swapped for a "Tichu" button.
deejinlondon wrote: 08 August 2023, 10:40 Also there are little message boxes that appear to explain the function of buttons/tabs and they inconveniently appear over the button/tab itself, could you move them below or above the button/tabs?
Please report this here, so we can track it. And other users can vote on it. Thanks!
https://boardgamearena.com/bugs?game=1237
deejinlondon wrote: 08 August 2023, 10:40 This request might be related to layout, but would it be possible for you to provide more flexibility options in how you can arrange the cards in your hand ?
A lot of users want that. Please upvote https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=22264
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