Why punish Hanabi players if we all agree to abandon the game?

[pattontower300]

Hello Hanabi players,

I realized recently that now if we choose to abandon the game in Hanabi, all players will lose 10 ELO points.

Who implemented this new rule and why was it implemented?

In other games, you do not lose ELO points if we chose to abandon the game together.

How do i ask the Hanabi developers to change back to the old rule whereby no ELO points are lost when we choose to abandon the game together?

Do i have to create some sort of petition or what? What do i have to do?

Please help!!

Thank you
patton

[ufm]

I'd rather say 'good riddance':
viewtopic.php?t=29333
viewtopic.php?t=17957
viewtopic.php?t=25443

This also happened in other co-op games. It should go away forever.

[Travis Hall]

You are not being punished when you abandon games of Hanabi. Increasing your ELO rating is not a reward. Decreasing your ELO rating is not a punishment. Both are just moving your rating to more accurately reflect your displayed level of skill, taking into account the new data point that is the game just ended.

And losing points for an abandoned game allows that data point to be taken into account too, thus increasing the accuracy of the system. (Even if some abandonments are for reasons completely outside of the game, it’s only a very small portion, so the decrease of ELO rating for all abandoned games is still an increase in accuracy of the system.)

The only problem here is your attitude towards ELO ratings. Stop regarding ELO ratings as a mechanism of reward and punishment, and the problem goes away.

(All that said, I still would prefer an ELO adjustment based on the score at the time of abandonment, rather than based on a score of 0. But I have to admit that it usually would make no difference.)

[ufm]

(All that said, I still would prefer an ELO adjustment based on the score at the time of abandonment, rather than based on a score of 0. But I have to admit that it usually would make no difference.)

Forcing the final score of abandoned games to 0 prevents unexpected bugs regarding scoring.
Also, it encourages players to finish the games to minimize their losses in some games.

[michaelHastriter]

I agree with UFM. When I say I want to play a game of Hanabi with just good players or better, I expect them to understand how to bluff or at least finesse. It just makes no sense how somone can have such high ELO because they abandon all games that didn't fall into their hands. Now this will hopefully help the players who actually want to have a good game find the right players and at the very least when I see a 500+ ELO player I know they can understand a bluff. (and play their newest card)

[GonzaloDLPG]

I'm agree with you. I don't care about ELO, but it's frustrating when you play with players who doesn't know how to play well and they make begginers mistakes. Anyway, that's not the problem, the problem is when you tell the other player the mistakes, they get ungry and lose the game on porpuse. It seems there are player that don't want to learn how to play. I follow all the advises when I started playing this game without any problem.

[ChiefPointThief]

I'm agree with you. I don't care about ELO, but it's frustrating when you play with players who doesn't know how to play well and they make begginers mistakes. Anyway, that's not the problem, the problem is when you tell the other player the mistakes, they get ungry and lose the game on porpuse. It seems there are player that don't want to learn how to play. I follow all the advises when I started playing this game without any problem.

From my experience people rarely try to help others in a positve way. At least if that is their intention they go about it the wrong way. Also I never talk in games when my partner is making mistakes. I play with experts and up and still come across players who lose on purpose. Every week since the elo change was implemented I see new post from players concerned about being cheated in hanabi games.

[SKZdman]

Repeat after me:

"ELO is not a measure of me as a human"
"I am more than my ELO score"
"I should not base my self-worth on an arbitrary skill score from a board games website"

Repeat each mantra 10x daily. And if that fails, have a nice cuppa.

You're welcome!

[diart]

I for one do not like that we can no longer abandon games without taking a full negative 10 ELO hit. Not because I want to avoid taking the hit (ok I kinda do but that's not why I object to the lack of abandon). Honestly sometimes you think you start a game thinking you have time and then something comes up and suddenly you need to go. I've been on both sides of this. Now there is no grace/mercy. Because who wants to take -10 for your unfortunate situation? You ask to concede and there is no incentive to agree. You will be directed to simply quit.

Rather I wish if the whole table agrees, that the person who proposes takes the most ELO hit, while others may take a lesser degree of ELO hit.

[Romain672]

Because who wants to take -10 for your unfortunate situation? You ask to concede and there is no incentive to agree. You will be directed to simply quit.

I talked about that point before here: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17384 .

The fact that someone which need to leave after half the game is played should lead to him leaving the game, not for having a collective abandon. I talked more about it in the previous subject.

For the abandon after 1 or 2 minute of play, it's different. But still the person which leave assumed she got enough time/got something unexpected. If it's commun, there shouldn't be an abandon and that person should take the hit of karma (and change his habbits, she makes others players lose their time by starting games too much). So it's better now.

If it's not commun, then before making that person not lose elo was pretty nice. But it look relatively minor to me.

.

Another great point is that you can't differenciate someone leaving because of an emergency, and someone leaving because she doesn't want to lose elo.
So the only thing possible is to make that person lose elo. That's as simple as that.
In league of legends, they created a way to not make you lose 'elo' the first time you leave a game in a certain period of time, what was the result? People was leaving only if that costed them nothing. So it doesn't work well: if you do the same in Hanabi, one person will said 'oh I need to leave, can someone which didn't use his ability to abandon the game this month abandon?', and that causes many other problems.

I proposed to make the loss of elo being halfed if the person didn't do a single turn in the game. But this proposition would only work at 2 players on games where the starting position give you 75% of victory or less. And would be really detrimental on games where it's not the case, since it could be abused.