Not loving the 3 player model in the arena, opinions?

[ArthurDent29]

I was just wandering peoples opinion on the change to 3 players in the arena. I used to love playing fast arena games that would be limited to 20 min but i notice the game dynamic is now much slower and im not enjoying the arena as much....was wondering what the general feeling was on this topic.

[a banana]

I agree it’s terrible slow. I’m back to playing basic wingspan. Two players.

[Ceaseless]

Wingspan is better than most games at increasing player count by offering fewer chances for players to mess with each other and create teamwork issues, whether accidently or intentionally. That said, it's obviously better in 2 player with a shorter waiting time to make tables, shorter turn cycles with fewer players, and the interaction issues aren't completely gone either, just less than they would be in many other games.

If I had to guess we're just going through a phase that will be reverted next time around, but we'll see.

[MightyMisterFox]

i agree....super annoying. missing the 2 player model..

[DrEveEve]

Yes, hard agree, hoping the next arena season will bring back a 2 players system!

[elutomsk]

Agree the games take too long now.

[Bartissimo]

I can understand the dislike for the much longer time requirement and loss of flow and speed for real-time games. Still, for the manner in which I play, mostly turn-based, this shift to 3-player Arena gets a big thumbs up. A few thoughts:

- for turn-based games, the added length makes little difference. I don't play real-time all that often, and so the downside of added game length in live settings has no impact.
- This point will be entirely subjective, but I like the gameplay better in 3p. There is more rotation in the birdfeeder and the card deck, adding both competition and opportunity. More is happening in general that needs your attention. Also, to get the overall win, you need to beat two players instead of just one. The dynamics for end-of-round goals and choice of which goals you pursue change as well.
- Also subjective: to my mind, 2p "competitive" formats work better when a game involves primarily skill and virtually no luck, as with classical games like chess and go (I play both). My like for modern boardgames comes from the rich dynamics with higher player counts, the unpredictability that arises as a result of that, and that also fits nicely with the game mechanics of personal (and hidden) goals, luck with card draw and turn order, and so forth.
- I used to play Wingspan mainly as an occasional game in real life, and here on BGA as a tournament game or in Play mode at higher player counts. Now that Arena offers the 3p format, I am happy to get into the Arena mix!
- I see Arena changes elsewhere too. I have probably played too much Terraforming Mars here on BGA, and with the new Arena season, TfM has has stuck with 2-player mode, but on a different map (Hellas, as a change from the original Tharsis map). I like TfM better as a 3p-game, and with the shift to Hellas, I noticed I wasn't enjoying that format at all. Whether I won or lost a game in that format, I just didn't find much enjoyment in it. And so I was looking for a shift of game - with now Wingspan offering a fun, new alternative in Arena mode. For me, TfM will move to tournament and Play mode in 3p for a while, and it's a goodbye for TfM Arena play this season.

Even if 3p is the game mode in the Wingspan Arena for only one season, it will have made at least this player happy for that season!

[FrankJones]

As you noted, more cycling of the feeder and card tray. Pink birds become more useful but not overpowered like they might be in 5-player. The end-round goals are no longer an automatic 6-point swing just for having one more egg than your one opponent.

A minor issue - whoever goes first gets to go first in round 4 also, exacerbated by the fact that the game indicates who goes first before making starting selections.

[FDHenneberg]

I can understand the dislike for the much longer time requirement and loss of flow and speed for real-time games. Still, for the manner in which I play, mostly turn-based, this shift to 3-player Arena gets a big thumbs up.

I have difficulties to even find two other players to get a game going in turn-based Arena. I only played a few Arena games last season, but each time, I instantly got a matchup. Is your experience different with the new format?

[Bartissimo]

I have difficulties to even find two other players to get a game going in turn-based Arena. I only played a few Arena games last season, but each time, I instantly got a matchup. Is your experience different with the new format?

Well, I started three turn-based Arena games yesterday and they went live within a few minutes each. Limited experience, but encouraging.

On a side note: a real-time game may take longer in 3p than in 2p, but am I right in thinking that the overall winner gets two wins for Arena purposes? That also improves time efficiency if you ignore the lengthier "feel". A 3p game doesn't take twice as long as a 2p game.