Master debunking process

[Shivaware]

Forgive this question, but I've only watched replays and haven't had a chance to try this out myself yet.

When performing a master debunking, do you have to select the result of the mixing, in addition to the two ingredients? When playing the physical game, you must also select the result, and then the app tells you whether this result was achieved or not.

When watching a replay, it appears you only have to select the two ingredients, and then the result of mixing them is displayed. If this is how it works on BGA, then some flexibility has been lost. There are cases where you already know what the result is, but you would rather create a conflict without letting other players know the result. In the physical game, you can just show that the two ingredients don't produce the result predicted by the published theories, which will generate a conflict and will not debunk any particular theory.

[Tamedknee]

Yes you select the result as well.

[Shivaware]

Yes you select the result as well.

Thanks for the reply, and am glad to hear the result needs to be selected.

[DoctorYes]

When you select the two ingredients you get a pop up window that lists the possible potions. Below them it says "If this is the case" and "If this is not the case."

What does that mean?

Also, I know an experiment that can yield only two possible potions. Either outcome disproves a published theory. Is there any way I can debunk other than guessing on that 50/50 chance of which is which?

[Soba_Viking]

When you select the two ingredients you get a pop up window that lists the possible potions. Below them it says "If this is the case" and "If this is not the case."

What does that mean?

If you mix a green plus potion on a theory that has a green minus element - it will be debunked.
If you have two published theories with two small green pluses and you mix those together a still get a green plus potion that means that there is a conflict (since one of them has to be a big plus) but it's not clear which theory is wrong so they will be in conflict until someone debunks properly.

Also, I know an experiment that can yield only two possible potions. Either outcome disproves a published theory. Is there any way I can debunk other than guessing on that 50/50 chance of which is which?

Not sure I follow, do you mean that two elements of the published theory are wrong? Just debunk any. Or that one of them is wrong but you don't know which one specifically? Then it's 50/50.

[Volker_B]

Each debunk has two possible outcomes. One succeeds, the other fails. Lets assume that you want to debunk Mushroom (R+G+B-) against Toad (R+G-B-). There are several possibilites:

• You show that the two make a R+ potion => Failure (this is what the theory table tells)
• You fail showing that the two make a potion different from R+ => Failure (this is expected from the theory table)
• You show that the two don't make a R+ potion => Success, conflict (it's not what's expected from the theory table but you can't tell which one is wrong. Maybe both are wrong)
• You show that the two make a G+ potion => Toad is debunked (theory claims G-, experiment shows G+)
• You show that the two make a B+ potion => Success, both are debunked

So, for each of the seven possible potions there are two possible results. Either you make the potion you claim, or you don't make it. One is according to the theory table, this is a failed debunk. The other contradicts the theory table, this is a susccess. Susccess can be a single debunk, a double debunk, or a conflict.
And this is what the pop up window tells you before you confirm. It just makes sure that all understand what the result will mean.

[Shivaware]

I'm guessing the question being asked is something like this:

There are published theories about Scorpion (r+g-B+) and Flower (R+g+b-) and the poster knows that when they are mixed, they can only form G+ or B+. If it's G+, Scorpion is debunked. If it's B+, Flower is debunked. If you try to show that it's G+, but the answer is false, you didn't show anything and will lose reputation.

Of course, we don't know if those are the only possible outcomes without seeing the information you have, but assuming it is correct, I don't think you can be certain of removing one of the theories by mixing those ingredients. What you can do is show that they do not form R+ as the theories would predict, and that would at least put them into conflict and earn you 2 reputation points.

[Volker_B]

OK. This is a "push your luck" situation. Choose one and try. If you succeed you're man of the match. If you fail you lose one reputation but gain valuable information.

[DoctorYes]

Thanks for the help!

In more detail, someone published that Foot is Triple Negative.

I know it's either r- B- g+ or R- b+ g-

I know all the ingredients except Foot (50/50) and Toad (50/50).

So I took a guess on the 50/50 and missed. It's annoying that I knew the published theory was wrong but couldn't prove it... which also meant I couldn't publish a theory on Triple Negative which I needed to get one of the bonus tiles.

There are some really annoying aspects of this game, despite the fantastic deduction mechanism.

[Volker_B]

After the failed debunk you should know which of the two is the correct one. You can then endorse with a hedged seal and get the grant. It's not optimal but a way forward.